Outfit Headquarters and Outfit Barracks

[Hayoo]

Outfit HQ and Outfit Barracks Introduction:

Players like to own a piece of their game for many reasons. This desire was to manifest itself in the form of Outft Base Ownership. But because continents are taken over too rapidly, the costs of owning a base are too high versus the losses sustained. Small outfits would have limited resources to upgrade bases. Finite number of ideal locations would foster jealously and outfit cooperation would drop. Most importantly, players have no way of defending a claimed base 24/7.

The solution I believe is to design a dual system: The first part being continent-based facilities for Oufits that are intended and understood to be temporary cooporative locations that risk being captured. The second type of base being a safe and permenant sanctuary-based facility for outfits to invest time and upgrades in.

Ideally, Outfits will assemble and equip at their Barracks, head to a continent, setup HQ at a base with fellow outfits that needs defending or other base for whatever reason, choose an upgrade, and relocate the HQ when the battle moves on or turns bad.

Read below, starting with Part I, to learn more.

[Hayoo]

Part I: Outfit Headquarters (OHQ) - Continent-based.

• An Oufit Leader (or a ranking member who has permission to do so) can look at the map and use Outfit Credits to remotely select a base, tower, or urban outpost as an Outfit Headquarters. No need to manually be there at the Main Terminal. This prevents TKing.
• Bases cost the most, followed by urban outposts and then towers. There is no maintenance fee.
• A facility, tower, or urban outpost can host more than one outfit at a time, up to 10, depending.
• By setting up an OHQ, Oufits gain access to Outfit Waypoints, the HQ as a Recall point, and as a Respawn point if you are on that continent.
• In addition, each Outfit may purchase one upgrade for that HQ. Because most fights on a continent only take place in a few location (due to the lattice), this allows for multiple Outfits to select the same base and defend it better, with each Outfit selecting an upgrade to add to the others. Purchases have a small enable timer.
• Outfits must choose wisely which upgrade they wish to use to defend a base or coordinate with other outfits to arrange the best setup.
• OHQ's can be removed from a location remotely or manually from the Main Terminal. A timer then begins before another location can be selected for the Outfit Headquarters.
• Outfit decals are showed as banners along the location roof or walls. The first Outfit to have setup an OHQ at the location is listed on the map. They can 'promote' another outfit to this privelage by removing their HQ from the location or bumping them up in the same way you'd promote a squad member to squad leader.
• There are also Command and Communications bonuses for setting up an OHQ, but that will have to wait.
• As an added bonus, these upgrades are Oufit-Linked Upgrades. That is, if you are in an Alliance with another Oufit on the same continent, your upgrades will be added to their OHQ for free, and vice versa. See below for explanation.

Outfit Linked Benefits...or Alliance Linked Benefits if you prefer. First we assume alliances are in the game, not sure if there should be a limit on number of member outfits. Now if two allied outfits are headquartered on the same continent and if both outfits have purchased an upgrade for their respective base, then both bases recieve the upgrades through the Outfit Linked Benefits. If one of those two outfits removes their HQ from the continent or withdraws an upgrade, then the other outfit's HQ loses the upgrade as well. Can't gain something without giving something.

Example of HQs sharing a location: Outfit 1 sets up HQ at Faro and puts in the longer IFF locks upgrade. The base eventually comes under heavy attack so Outfit 1 recalls from another continent to defend. The base is obviously in dire straits, so Oufit 2 transfers their HQ from Shango to Faro and upgrades the turrets. Outift 3 sets up its HQ there as well and activates the generator shield that must be hacked first. If the base defends successfully and the battles move elsewhere, the outfits can choose to shift their HQs around to follow the battle or perhaps set up a defense at another base to ward off spec operations.

Reasonings:

Now I know some outfits will say "this isn't fair, why should I potentially share a base with 10 other oufits? I want Gunuku all to myself because we can afford more than one upgrade."

Well, the temporary HQ idea saves outfits money (who wants to invest a whole bunch of points only to loose it at 3am the next day?). If you desire a more permenant base, wouldn't the logical place be in the sanctuary, where it can remain for all time, or at least as long as you can pay the fees?

Additionally such temp HQs put all outfits on an even footing no matter how large or small they are, so even a small outfit can contribute meaningfully to base defense since they can reasonably afford a single upgrade rather than be burdened with tricking out an important base they happened to claim first.

Now whether this small outfit can also afford an Outfit Barracks in the sanctuary is another matter. If they can't, their best option to recieve outfit waypoints and other abilities is to set up an HQ whenever their outfit is online.

Below are possible upgrades available to OHQs:

Available Facility Upgrades: One per Oufit (list incomplete):

• Turret weapon upgrades
• Spawn room-to-surface Teleporter
• Generator terminal must be hacked to drop a shield before gen can be destroyed.
• Longer IFF locks
• Barricades and Laserwire on the base's perimeter
• Personal Shield-type shielding on bunkers – within SOI
• Equipment Terminals in bunkers – within SOI
• Oufit Garage: ability to store vehicles (and future Empire Tech vehicles) at a Repair Silo and retrieve them from the Vehicle Terminal at any other latticed base or connected Urban Outpost.
• Machine Guns at intervals along base walls
• Surveillance Cameras in sensitive areas
• Intruder proximity alerts for base.
• Power Transfer from surrounding territories (if a Gen is blown, power is automatically transfered from adjacent urban outposts' generator, if functioning).

Available Urban Outpost Upgrades: One per Oufit (list incomplete) - Part of the Urban Areas and Territories Concepts:

• Longer IFF locks
• Barricades and Laserwire on the urban outposts perimeter.
• Generator terminal must be hacked to drop a shield before gen can be destroyed.
• Oufit Garage: ability to store vehicles (and future Empire Tech vehicles) at a Repair Silo and retrieve them from the Vehicle Terminal at any other latticed base or connected Urban Outpost.
• Machine Guns at intervals along outpost perimeter
• Surveillance Cameras in sensitive areas
• Intruder proximity alerts for urban outpost.
• Shielding over Supply Depot garage doors.
• Power Transfer from surrounding territories (if a Gen is blown, power is automatically transfered from adjacent urban outpost or facility).

Available Tower Upgrades: One per Oufit (list incomplete):

• NTU Recharge pads/silos at Towers – Recharge must be activated or paid for. Repair/Rearm subject to NTU level and supply line rules. Also allows vehicle matrixing and storage for retrieval at any supplied vehicle terminal.
• Turret weapon upgrades
• Spawn room-to-surface Teleporter
• Longer IFF locks
• Barricades and Laserwire on the tower's perimeter
• Personal Shield-type shielding on nearby bunkers
• Oufit Garage: ability to store vehicles (and future Empire Tech vehicles) at the Repair Silo and retrieve them from the Vehicle Terminal at any other latticed base or connected Urban Outpost.
• Machine Guns at intervals along tower walls and perimeter
• Intruder proximity alerts for tower.
• Power Transfer from surrounding territories (if a Tower NTU silo is drained, power is automatically transfered from adjacent urban outposts. note: Tower's don't go neutral, only lose power and supply line).

You can also view a Flash Demo of availabe upgrades.

For the Oufit benefits of Oufit Waypoints, Vehicle Garage, and Recall points to be more permenant, Outfits will need to purchase and maintain an Outfit Barrack in the Sanctuary. Which leads us to part II...

[Hayoo]

Part II: Outfit Barracks (OB) - Sanctuary-based.

• You can purchase (and maintain) a sanctuary Outfit Barracks that provides persistant outfit upgrades such as outfit waypoints, or more cosmetic upgrades like outfit accessories.
  
  This allows for a safe base you can claim for your outfit, so long as you continue to be successful in the field and can make the maintenance costs. Outfits will be able to customize their holdings so they stand out more. And when they HQ at a base (see Part I above) these customizations follow them.
  
• Outfit Barracks can be purchased in Sanctuary in clusters called Camps.
• Once bought, you must pay maintenance fees.
• Unlike OHQ, which are temporary setups on continents, Barracks are persistent and provide constant access to Outfit Waypoints and a Sanc Recall point, among other outfit-specific benefits.
• You can upgrade your Barracks with a Vehicle Garage (which lets you store special or customized vehicles and stolen tanks, and lets you retrieve them at any “supplied” friendly vehicle pad in the game), Training Rooms, Driving range, various terminals, war memorials, outfit ads, meeting halls, outfit locker, landing pads, repair silos, etc.

It's safe to assume that Outfits will be able to customize their Barracks as their 'home and headquarters' with different types terminals, room items, storage options, training options, outdoor items, vehicle facilities, etc. These customizations can only be used by Outfit members, and Alliance members if they've set that permission. (Yes, this is assuming Alliances will make it into the game).

Possible Barracks Upgrades

• Vehicle Storage (allows retrieval and storage of vehicles on any continent)
• Training Rooms
• Obstacle Course
• Shooting Range
• Virtual Battlefield
• Voting Terminals
• Outfit Terminals
• News and Mail Terminal
• War Memorials
• Posters
• Outfit Ads
• Size of meeting hall
• Office with window
• Outfit Locker – subject to supply lines on continents
• Landing Pads
• Repair Silos
• Spawn Tubes or Camp Spawn Tubes?
• Barracks Management Terminal
• Medical Terminals

[Hayoo]

Possible Outfit Point Expenditures - Requres OHQ or Barracks

• Vehicle drops
• Uniform accessories (head gear like berets; branch badges, etc).
• Outfit Barracks upgrades (See Part II: OB section above)
• OHQ upgrades (see Part I: OHQ section)
• Outfit-specific vehicles and equipment
• Outfit specialization
• Oufit Waypoints
• Vehicle garage
• Barracks command center
• Orbital Strikes?

[Hayoo]

Concept Main Points:

Outfit Headquarters:

• One time HQ set up fee. Bases cost most, towers cost least.
• OHQ Lasts so long as one outfit member remains in game (assuming HQ isn't dibanded before then)
• One base upgrade per outfit (one-time fee, no maintenance costs).
• 10 Headquarters allowed per base, each able to purchase 1 base upgrade each.
• HQ can be transfered to another base (upgrade must be purchased again).
• Purchasable outfit upgrades last so long as an HQ exists.
• Provides continent respawn point
• Base upgrades link through lattice to allied Outfits' HQ (assuming Alliances are added into the game)

Outfit Barracks:

• Persistant, regardless of number of outfit members online
• Initial Barracks selection fee and following maintanance costs
• Purchasable Outfit upgrades (initial fee and maintenance costs)
• Provides Recall point

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I have several graphics for this brewing. One of them will be my first Flash-driven illustration for the site (I really need to get back in the saddle on that one). The others are a sequential timeline of events on how OHQ and OB work.

Expanded Base Status window for Outfit Headquarters...

[7ruth]

SWEET!

[Hayoo]

Thanks, man.

Updated thread with rough illustration. Want to turn this into a Flash thing, roll over name, location lights up, lines draw, description pops up, etc.

[bwzman]

I really hope they add the new OBO soon...

[Earlydawn]

I think it's prettymuch canned for the immediate future.

[DviddLeff]

As always, very nice work, the amount of thought you've put into this is staggering.

Id make some suggestions, but after reading that I cant think of any.

Oh, I do think orbital strikes should cost outfit points though.

Also, make sure that there is a large cost to purchase the sanc camps, othrwise you'll have every idiot making their own "house" in sanctuary.

Id really like to see the sanctuaries merged into one big villa, with surrounding outfit camps around it, like a city with the camps being the suburbs if you will, perhaps with a warpgate at the centre, or two, one at each side of the city.

Perhaps with the alliances, give the alliance leaders to opt for one alliance "mega-barracks", a large building with outfit barracks (still customisable by the outfit) leading off from the main Alliance building, which can be designed and added to by the alliance outfit leaders. Perhaps give the outfits options for where they reside in the Alliance barracks, if an outfits all about air superioraty, they could have an aircraft hanger on the roof of the base as their barracks, if an outfit likes to concentrate on ground vehicles, they could have an underground garage as their home.

Barracks should definatly (well have an option) have large banners showing both the name and logo of the outfit or alliance, so that its very obvious which one belongs to who.

If existing outfits join an alliance, then they should have the option to move their barracks to the alliance camp or "mega-barracks", their old barracks being removed for another outfit to use the spot.

Also, I feel that each empire should have the option for either the standard architechtural style we see in the sancs currently, or a more empire specific archituctural style, to give the sancs more flavour, other than the colour.

Once all the outfit and alliance barracks have been created, can you imagine sanc strikes being implemented, outfits defending their camps at all costs, alliance barracks being the strongpoints in the defense, bristling with weapons...

[Hayoo]

I like the idea of Orbital Strikes costing outfit points (as originally intended) but we'd get opposition from non-outift CR5's who would feel cheated out of something "they worked so hard to get." :)

To counter this, I thought of having three general Outifts that a player joins automatically upon character creation. No single player is in charge of them (except maybe Devs) but it provides a means for getting to know your newbie Outift mates through the outfit chat. Perhaps outfit points can be accumulated on a harsher curve so that all the non-outfit players don't flood the outfit with points. The common pool of points are then used for a limited range of abilities, such as Oribital Strikes.

I'd still need to work out details but these Empire Outfits could be modelled as Branches like Armor, Air, etc. I've noticed several posters on the forums suggest this very thing and I like the idea.


I've always liked the idea of Alliances grouping together in one complex. Nice ideas. Until the Bending, I was forced to make such camps "instanced", to save room (like the VR rooms). Now that we have planets, new housing zones can be opened up on new continents or nearby moons at Sanctuary. Kinda like how DAoC did their housing. I agree that it should be expensive, to reduce the potential for massive growth and then suddenly having ghost towns, which would be bad for PR.

I'm not sure about Sanc strikes on outfit structures though. Imagine all your hard work going into upgrading and tricking out your facilities and then BAM you can't get it. I love the idea of Sanc strikes, but the potential to lose your hard earned features was what killed it in the first place. Perhaps a strike on the Sanctuary Capital City would suffice, seeing as everyone would at least be in some kind of Outfit, allowing them to spawn and re-equip off-planet or outside of town to drive out the invaders.

In my mind, any Sanc Strike's goal would be 1) bragging rights obviously, and 2) a raid to steal resource points from a rival empire. These points would feed the attacker's own Empire Tech Level. Since we don't have 3 home conts anymore, another requirement would be necessary to allow Sanc Strikes.

[Earlydawn]

Well, you could contest that sanctuary strikes should be very hard to pull off, and the outfit goes into developing their Outfit Barracks with the understanding that it can be vulerable should the sanc fall under attack, and you'll have to defend it.

[DviddLeff]

Rather than designing systems for non-outfit CR4/5s to use OSs, Id rather just not allow them to use them at all. This pushes people into outfits, something they may not find the joy in otherwise.

Outfit/Alliance Barracks should have some kind of monthly cost as well (something that the Outfit leaders could "tax" out of the outfit credits to make sure the payments are met), if its not met then the barracks dissapears. This is to stop dead outfit/alliances barracks from wasting room in the sanc.

Possibly when a new spot opens up, outfit/alliances could move their existing barracks to that spot, if they desire to (eg a once successfull outfit dies, which had its barracks very close to the centre of the city, and another outfit could relocate to this better spot).

The Outfit/Alliance Barracks in the event of a sanc strike would be capturable by the enemy, however nothing would be destroyable that could not be repaired by a engineer. I think that this would be very atmospheric, the defenders fighting for their land, and then fighting for it back once they have lost it.

Still, Im not sure if Sanc strikes would be best idea, as you can bet everything you own that an opposing empire would never stop defending an enemy sanc against its previous owners.

[Hayoo]

Rather than designing systems for non-outfit CR4/5s to use OSs, Id rather just not allow them to use them at all. This pushes people into outfits, something they may not find the joy in otherwise.

I'm a bit wary of pushing people to join player-controlled groups, as so much of their subsequent enjoyment depends on complete strangers. That's why I prefer a communal outfit where everyone is an equal, where they can get used to the idea of being in contact with lots of other people and make friends before they specialize with a player-led group.

On the other hand, getting the OS proliferation under control would be most welcome. It's a tough one for me personally. In my concepts I try to include as many people as possible so that players have the perception of playing as they see fit.

Truly, I think the mistake was made in pairing Orbital Strikes with Command Rank. In my mind the two never should have been put together. I'd rather just do away with that symbiosis and make OS availble to something else. Oh well. :(

Outfit/Alliance Barracks should have some kind of monthly cost as well

I agree. My concept has a maintenance fee just for having Barracks and then additional fees for making upgrades.

The Outfit/Alliance Barracks in the event of a sanc strike would be capturable by the enemy, however nothing would be destroyable that could not be repaired by a engineer. I think that this would be very atmospheric, the defenders fighting for their land, and then fighting for it back once they have lost it.

Sanctuary Strikes really depends upon the layout of the Sanctuary and where the outfit assets are in relation to it. If we have a central Capital city, most enemy players would want the ability to fight over and capture that. If we have oufit barracks within the city, where do people spawn? If you have outfit barracks on other islands or moons away from the Capital, why would the enemy go after the moons and not the Big Apple? Wouldn't the enemy rather invade the capitol for bragging rights rather than an outfit's facility?

How do you guys see the Sanctuaries laid out and how it relates to Sanc Strikes? Players must be able to respawn in a safe place and put up a fight. Sanc Strikes should last no longer than a few hours really, so that players get the excitement of homeland defense but then aren't discourged from logging on.

[DviddLeff]

Yeah, Im really not sure sanc strikes should be implemented at all, its is a bit much, and raises far too many concerns.

On the subject of OS's Id rather they wernt in the game at all, far too many people get CR5 just for the OS, which is a waste.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Sep 14 2004, 12:09 AM
Yeah, Im really not sure sanc strikes should be implemented at all, its is a bit much, and raises far too many concerns.

On the subject of OS's Id rather they wernt in the game at all, far too many people get CR5 just for the OS, which is a waste.

Agreed. Divorcing OS from CR will be a painful process, I'm afraid. But I think for the good of the game it should be done eventually. Who knows what will happen.

Sanctuary strikes are sticky. As T-Ray said in the PSU:MA video, striking a sanctuary is fun, but being under siege is not. We'd have to come up with something both simple and brilliant to get people to accept it. I have some ideas, but they're just internal ramblings of possibilties. I might make another thread just on that topic and see what others can contribute to the idea.

[7ruth]

If we had a city in our sanctuary I would let the enemy win just to beable to fight in it :D

[Cass]

I agree I think OS should be ether droped or the time expanded to 1 day which would stop all the kill whores from trying to get to CR5 just for it. i Also think Outfit alliances should be put in. it would help organize massive raids with everyone oranized under 1 small Command structure ( outfit leaders > Platoon leaders > Squad leaders )

[Ubu]

I would go a step further from that cammand structure to say Outfit leaders > Batallion leaders > Platoon leaders > Squad leaders.

This would allow outfit leaders to sent 2 platoons to one planet and have their overall direction controlled by the one batallion leader. The platoon leaders would control their squads in a more specific area (say around a base) and the squad leaders would be even more specific (back door/Gen room).

Since the overall show on a planet is being run by a batallion leader, the outfit leaders can control other batallion leaders on other planets without having to direct all their attention to a single planet.

This allows outfits to opperate around the system without fear of other planets being captured due to their lack of attention.

The drawback to this idea is the fact that you would require large numbers of people for it to work effectivly <_<

[Earlydawn]

Have you read the design for Task Forces? I think you'd find it quite satisfying. :D

[Ubu]

I may have skimmed through it but now I can't find the link!

[Earlydawn]

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_com...abilities.shtml

:D

[DviddLeff]

Back on the topic of Outfits, how many outfits do you think should be allowed as a maximum per Alliance?

Im thinking 5->10, as too large and you'll just get a super alliance developing, with all the large outfits from a server on it, leaving the small outfits in their wake, too small and you penalise the smaller outfits in their alliance who cant field the players.

[Hayoo]

I'd agree with those numbers. Of course it all depends on the perks for having an Alliance. In my OHQ idea, I have Alliance-linked benefits, but I'm capping it at 10 upgrades per cont, no matter the number of outfits. That way, no alliance can upgrade more than 10 bases/towers on one continent at a time.

So long as their isn't some XP bonus or such for being in an Alliance, we can remove size restrictions or at least increase them to a dozen. If there are bonuses, then size needs to stay between 5 - 10 as you suggest, to keep it fair.

[Hayoo]

Coming Soon...

[DviddLeff]

Looking very nice Hayoo :D

Had an thought, with the Outfit Barracks in sanc, when recalling back players should be given the option to respawn at thier Outfit Barracks, or a random, or perhaps choose a villa.

Also, before the outfit owned bases in whatever form comes in, perhaps outfit leaders (or ranks who have been given permission) can bind the entire outfit to a base or tower, so that outfits can form up in the field.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Oct 9 2004, 11:44 PM
Looking very nice Hayoo :D

Had an thought, with the Outfit Barracks in sanc, when recalling back players should be given the option to respawn at thier Outfit Barracks, or a random, or perhaps choose a villa.

Also, before the outfit owned bases in whatever form comes in, perhaps outfit leaders (or ranks who have been given permission) can bind the entire outfit to a base or tower, so that outfits can form up in the field.

Yeah, those sound good.

If Barracks/OHQ went in, when a player hits Recall the menu will list these choices:

Recall to OHQ
Recall to Barracks
Recall to Sanctuary

Until then we can have Recall to Sanctuary and Recall to Bind Point...although I think I'd make this outfit leader or XO (new rank) only. So that the OL has to go to the cont and manually bind his outfit before anyone can spawn there. This would probably require outfit points (just like setting up an OHQ) so that it's not abused.

[Earlydawn]

Well, bear in mind the Comtech has the ability to bind their squad to a given point. Might not want to take that away from them.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Oct 10 2004, 02:39 AM
Well, bear in mind the Comtech has the ability to bind their squad to a given point. Might not want to take that away from them.

Thanks for the reminder, Early.

Amend my earlier statement to say "Outfit Leader or radio-equipped Comtech only."

The Outfit Leader would have to do it manually. This bind point is available to all outfit members, no matter what unit they're in.

The Comtech can do it remotely, but only for members of his unit, from squad on up.

[DviddLeff]

Good point, hard to remember all of the ideas to fit them together :lol:

[Hayoo]

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/obconcepts.htm

[Earlydawn]

Dead link.

[Hayoo]

There. Had an extra letter in there by mistake.

[7ruth]

Nice :o

[DviddLeff]

Very, very nice :D

Although, Id rather outfit members can respawn at their HQ from anywhere in the galaxy, just to make it more defendable.

However, that depends on how much outfits take the first base on a cont, make it their HQ then move on, take the cont then start on another, make the first base their HQ, etc

On the subject of the Outfit Barracks, what Id like is to have them have all the base upgrades (or maybe have a upgrades in sets, outfits unlocking them as they gain more and more outfit points, like the decals?) available to the outfit for free, even though they probably wont ever be used in the sanctuary, just for the look.

[Hayoo]

Although, Id rather outfit members can respawn at their HQ from anywhere in the galaxy, just to make it more defendable.

Hmm. I guess when one decons in cont they can respawn at will to the sanc? If so, I guess it wouldn't hurt to make OHQ do that as well. What say the rest of you?

On the subject of the Outfit Barracks, what Id like is to have them have all the base upgrades (or maybe have a upgrades in sets, outfits unlocking them as they gain more and more outfit points, like the decals?) available to the outfit for free, even though they probably wont ever be used in the sanctuary, just for the look.

That's an interesting thought. Kinda like the cert trees I guess. Although some of the OHQ upgrades wouldn't be very practical to have in a sanc base that no enemy can reach or hardly any friendlies would see you have it: like the gen field, intruder alert, and Advanced IFF locks.

The other things like perimeter barricades, extra turrets and MGs, etc. would be cool asthetic enhancements for your base. It would also be nice to add a landing field, flag post (rather than just the hologram banners), and all the other candy mentioned earlier.

[Cass]

great work, but i still think that how fast conts come and go, buying a facility does not have a vary good plus, think you attack a cont buy one of the bases, 2 hours later you are on a diffrent cont with no plus or point from your HQ.

[Earlydawn]

I think you should have three options on your escape menu

• Recall to Sanctuary (Would be broken up into three small buttons (NW, NE, Forseral, in the TR case)
• Recall to Outfit Barracks (Requires you bought the spawn tubes upgrade to spawn directly. Otherwise, it brings you to the closest spawn point to it.)
• Recall to OHQ. (Obviously only applicable if you have an OHQ established. In the case of a Urban Outpost, which doesn't have spawn tubes, it brings you in as close as possible.)

When you choose to respawn or deconstruct, you'll be presented with five boxes on the Right side of the screen:

• Sanctuary
• Outfit Barracks
• OHQ
• Base Bind Point
• AMS Bind Point

[Hayoo]

"great work, but i still think that how fast conts come and go, buying a facility does not have a vary good plus"

I agree. Which is why the concept doesn't have you buy a facility. You rent one of ten headquarters slots at a low setup cost.

"2 hours later you are on a diffrent cont with no plus or point from your HQ"

2 hours later when the battle moves on, you simply transfer your HQ to the next base or tower that has an open slot, for FREE!...so long as it's on the same continent. You are never ever stuck at a base, and you should never feel stuck at a base. The transfer within a continent is compley free (since you've already bought the right to set up an HQ on planet), but the base upgrade you need to purchase again. Should you move to another continent, you'll need to setup an OHQ once more.


"I think you should have four options on your escape menu

• Recall to Sanctuary (Would be broken up into three small buttons (NW, NE, Forseral, in the TR case)
• Recall to Outfit Barracks (Requires you bought the spawn tubes upgrade to spawn directly. Otherwise, it brings you to the closest spawn point to it.)
• Recall to OHQ. (Obviously only applicable if you have an OHQ established. In the case of a Urban Outpost, which doesn't have spawn tubes, it brings you in as close as possible.)"

What's the fourth option? I only see 3 bullets.

"When you choose to respawn or deconstruct, you'll be presented with five boxes on the Right side of the screen:

• Sanctuary
• Outfit Barracks
• OHQ
• Base Bind Point
• AMS Bind Point"

Wouldn't respawn locations be on the map though? Or do you prefer a button-based respawn?

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Hayoo@Oct 11 2004, 10:03 PM
"I think you should have four options on your escape menu

• Recall to Sanctuary (Would be broken up into three small buttons (NW, NE, Forseral, in the TR case)
• Recall to Outfit Barracks (Requires you bought the spawn tubes upgrade to spawn directly. Otherwise, it brings you to the closest spawn point to it.)
• Recall to OHQ. (Obviously only applicable if you have an OHQ established. In the case of a Urban Outpost, which doesn't have spawn tubes, it brings you in as close as possible.)"

What's the fourth option? I only see 3 bullets.

"When you choose to respawn or deconstruct, you'll be presented with five boxes on the Right side of the screen:

• Sanctuary
• Outfit Barracks
• OHQ
• Base Bind Point
• AMS Bind Point"

Wouldn't respawn locations be on the map though? Or do you prefer a button-based respawn?

Four? Whatever are you talking about? :P :D

I would reccomend that it be button based as it is now, with sanctuary and your bind points in boxes on the right, for the simple reason that your bind points / OHQ / Outfit Barracks won't always be on the same continent as you.

However, if these "special cases" are on the same continent, you will be able to select them like you would the nearest Base/Tower/AMS.

[Hayoo]

K, I see what you mean now. But are you sure you don't want one of those little continent windows with the respawn circle like it does for Sanc? :P

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Hayoo@Oct 11 2004, 11:51 PM
K, I see what you mean now. But are you sure you don't want one of those little continent windows with the respawn circle like it does for Sanc? :P

Which would be exactly what I'm talking about :P :D

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn+Oct 12 2004, 12:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CDL-Earlydawn @ Oct 12 2004, 12:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Hayoo@Oct 11 2004, 11:51 PM
K, I see what you mean now. But are you sure you don't want one of those little continent windows with the respawn circle like it does for Sanc?* :P

Which would be exactly what I'm talking about :P :D[/b][/quote]
Uh...I think I'm using the term "boxes" differently than you did. :D

For example: I look at the Esc Menu and see text and boxes as choices

I look at the respawn selection and I see the main map and then little windows of the sanctuary and other-cont spawn points. I guess I didn't think of that window as a "box", even though it is shaped like one. :P In that case, we've been talking about the same thing. LOL.

So...in the final analysis, these are the maximum number of spawn points available to a grunt...

let's say we have a guy on Hossin:

• His outfit has a barracks in Sanctuary
• His outfit is also HQ'd at a Forseral Tech Plant on the other side of the warpgate (for whatever reason the outfit leader hasn't transfered it to Mulac, Hossin yet).
• He has matrixed himself to Mulac Tech Plant.
• He is also matrixed to an AMS SW of Voltan. Naum is in friendly hands.
• The Comtech in his squad has placed a rally point at Voltan tower.

Ok, so if this guy bails out of an aircraft but then dies between Voltan and Naum, this guy would see:

On Hossin Continent Map

• Spawn point at matrixed AMS SW of Voltan
• Spawn point at Voltan Tower
• Spawn point at Mulac
• Spawn point at nearest AMS where he died (which happens to be at Naum).
• Spawn point at Naum Tower (nearest tower)
• Spawn point at Naum (nearest base)

In Windows (or boxes) on either side of Hossin Continent Map

• Window of Sanctuary with Villa Spawn Point
• Window of Sanctuary with Barracks Spawn Point
• Window of Forseral with HQ Spawn Point

To make it interesting I could have put a matrixed AMS on Solsar, and a matrixed base on Esamir, which would add two more cont windows. :P But for this example I'll keep it less cluttered.

So that's 9 maximum spawn points in all. Is that too many? :) As far as I know, even if you bind at an AMS, you can still respawn at a second AMS that's near your death spot.
Should "nearest spawn points" be taken out if a guy is in a squad?



Oh, I also added some sounds to the outfit page thing. Need to tweak them more, but no time today.

[Earlydawn]

Sounds perfect. And yeah, I was refering to the windows.

[Tiletron|Hyncharas]

It's all looking good to me, but you'd have to be careful about the sizes of continents at the moment. If an Outfit HQ is the size of a standard base, you may run out of places to put all the ones for the different outfits...

[7ruth]

Outfits can claim, with several other outfits, an EXISTING base as their HQ. Although you maybe refering to Outfit Barrakes wich outfits create in the sanctuary, but I doubt that they will be very large at all.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Tiletron|Hyncharas@Oct 12 2004, 09:22 PM
It's all looking good to me, but you'd have to be careful about the sizes of continents at the moment. If an Outfit HQ is the size of a standard base, you may run out of places to put all the ones for the different outfits...

As 7ruth said, OHQs are claimed from existing facilities like Bases, Towers, or Urban Outposts. Outfit Barracks are set up on either a moon or seperate island of your Sanctuary, preventing space limitations.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by Tiletron|Hyncharas@Oct 12 2004, 09:22 PM
It's all looking good to me, but you'd have to be careful about the sizes of continents at the moment.* If an Outfit HQ is the size of a standard base, you may run out of places to put all the ones for the different outfits...

Heheh, 7ruth and Early beat me to it. Yeah, these aren't built bases on the conts, but existing ones. And HQs also include towers as well, so at 10 outfits per base I think there's tons of room for lots of outfits.

On the map of Hossin above, there could be up to 10 outfits headquartered at Zotz, 10 at Zotz tower, 10 at Mulac, 10 at Mulac tower, 10 at the WG tower, 10 at Naum, 10 at Naum tower, 10 at Voltan tower, 10 at the tower NW of Naum, etc. :)

[Hayoo]

Addition: Maybe I mentioned this before or maybe not, but I also wanted a new stat to track: Captured HQs. :)

You have to hack a headquartered base, at which point the enemy's HQ is stuck there and can't transfer. If you beat off resecures and cap it, those outfit's HQs are added to your score. If your outfit leader is quick (and if he's still online), he can wait till the last second to transfer the HQ back from the line before it's taken or it's marked on the outfit's record. MWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

I'm not going to make any rules about a transfer needing to happen along lattice lines or anything, but that's one less base for your side, so you'd better hope there's room in the other bases or towers (and one day Urban Outposts) for your outft's HQ to retreat to.

Maybe there'll be a seperate outfit-points cost for forcibly removing an HQ from a hacked base before it can be captured (in case 15 minutes is too long for them to wait to set up a new HQ).

[DviddLeff]

That would be very sweet, but Id like to see the name of the outfit who we captured the base from :ph43r:

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Oct 13 2004, 11:16 AM
but Id like to see the name of the outfit who we captured the base from :ph43r:

Yeah, that could be in there, but possibly on a short term basis. See, it's easiest to track that your HQ has been captured, as it's just a number...but 'by whom' is a bit more tricky because a lot of outfits participate in battles.

I'll probably have it that whichever outfit member is in the area then that outfit shares the credit for the capture. Desiging an interface to easily review all these names and stuff would be tough. Perhaps it won't be such a daily occurance and tracking it would easy. *shrug*

[DviddLeff]

Ah good point, and truthfully large, unorganised outfits that dont work together and just solo or join random squads would end up with a larger list and count of enemy outfit HQs captured, as they would have their fingers in many pies, as it were.

[Hayoo]

Yeah. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is. Sure it'd be nice to rub into another outfit's face that you've capped their HQ a dozen times, but then so could dozens of other outfits and it no longer becomes special. Only the overall count would mean anything, so I've decided just to have the overall count as the score... example -

Number of OHQs outfit captured: 55,
Number of times OHQ captured: 7.

[DviddLeff]

Good stuff.

With my proposed idea for outfits to gain "levels" of base upgrades, perhaps outfits could also gain an extra base upgrade slot for the base as they move up.

So, an outfit whos really been doing well could build one low class upgrade, such as the terminals in the bunkers, and one high class upgrade, such as the AA turret.

Also, I dont think you should allow 10 different outfits to claim a base as their HQ, as I feel this is a few too many, and you'd end up with most of the base upgrades on the base.

Instead I think only 3, or possibly up to 5 outfits should be able to claim a specific base.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Oct 14 2004, 06:05 PM
Good stuff.

With my proposed idea for outfits to gain "levels" of base upgrades, perhaps outfits could also gain an extra base upgrade slot for the base as they move up.

So, an outfit whos really been doing well could build one low class upgrade, such as the terminals in the bunkers, and one high class upgrade, such as the AA turret.

Also, I dont think you should allow 10 different outfits to claim a base as their HQ, as I feel this is a few too many, and you'd end up with most of the base upgrades on the base.

Instead I think only 3, or possibly up to 5 outfits should be able to claim a specific base.

That's the idea. If multiple outfits select a single base as their OHQ that happens to be a chokepoint on that continent's lattice, they have effectively defended the continent.

The system isn't about ownership, its about giving outfits a temporary, effective strongpoint/staging point on a continent.

[DviddLeff]

I just feel that 10 outfits are too much, especially if your putting their logos up around the base, after all, there are only about 30 different decals anyway!

[Hayoo]

Remember that an outfit may not be able to afford or wish to pay for an upgrade, but only want the place as a recall point. That was the main purpose of OHQs, a quick-reaction rally point for outfits to defend a base with their manpower, not necessarily defend it with upgrades. Those are just bonuses for having an OHQ. The outfit may not even be on the continent, but OHQ's allow them to monitor the situation and respond accordingly. They might be the only ones to respond too. It's all very dynamic because the outfits control their own deployments regardless of where their HQ is.

I can also split up the upgrades so there are different levels of each (not just make one a pre-req for another), such as the IFF locks - higher level of upgrade = more cost = higher hack time required by enemy. This method could effectively double or triple the 13 current upgrades. There are also other upgrades I want to add but haven't put enough thought into yet.

What I'm striving for is that even with a full setup of 10 OHQs at a base or tower, they wouldn't have all of the upgrades available and so each base battle would be slightly different and have different challanges for the attackers to adapt to.

Also under or over each decal would be the name of the unit. Given 4 sides of a base's structure, there would be two or three banners per side. With the advent of the new bases, you could have 2 or 3 banners per building block.

[DviddLeff]

Ah true, especially if you put levels of upgrades on each of the "slots".

Heh, upgrading the turrets into something like Team Fortress Classics would be awesome! :D

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Oct 15 2004, 11:56 AM
Ah true, especially if you put levels of upgrades on each of the "slots".

Heh, upgrading the turrets into something like Team Fortress Classics would be awesome! :D

Actually, that was referenced by Smokejumper as being in consideration for a future engineer ability.

[FeckinOtter]

All sounds good to me bar one thing, i dont like the idea of the alliances sharing the upgrades across the lattice it makes it much more likely that a base could have lots and lots of upgrades.

And having just read your economy posts maybe you could tie them in hear. Something along the lines of outfit points and money being required to upkeep a upgrade. Of course scaled to the size of the outfit. That way the upgrades dont just rely on outfits needing lots of kills to buy upgrades but rather needing to spend money which is at a premium being a fixed rate resource that has other uses elsewhere.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by FeckinOtter@Oct 26 2004, 01:09 AM
All sounds good to me bar one thing, i dont like the idea of the alliances sharing the upgrades across the lattice it makes it much more likely that a base could have lots and lots of upgrades.

Only 10 upgrades are allowed at each base, whether its from an OHQ being there or from an allied one.

[FeckinOtter]

Does that mean that a base could have 10 outfits having a headquarter there but that they are unable to buy an upgrade because some of the bases quota is being passed on from another outfits allies from a seperate base?
I could see situation were useful benefits are being lost because an outfit elsewhere has bought an upgrade more pertinent to their situation and this is being passed through the network to a base where it is not preventing more useful upgrades being purchased. It would also remove the idea of part of the base being yours rather than you just bieng there.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by FeckinOtter@Oct 26 2004, 01:41 AM
Does that mean that a base could have 10 outfits having a headquarter there but that they are unable to buy an upgrade because some of the bases quota is being passed on from another outfits allies from a seperate base?
I could see situation were useful benefits are being lost because an outfit elsewhere has bought an upgrade more pertinent to their situation and this is being passed through the network to a base where it is not preventing more useful upgrades being purchased. It would also remove the idea of part of the base being yours rather than you just bieng there.

No it's a passive upgrade. The current OHQs in that location have absolute rule in what upgrades effect the base. If the Alliance wanted all of their upgrades at that one base, they should have set up OHQ there first. Most outfits will consider it a convenient backup if others abandon a facility.

[Hayoo]

Ugh. I need to get back to this and update the Flash demo so that it's complete. This will include doing a "final" outfit management interface, and concise and perfectly illustrated sections on Outfit Headquarters and Outfit Barracks...no easy task.

I'll work on this the week after Christmas if I can.