Rank Salaries

[Hayoo]

This thread will discuss ideas for a controversial topic to Planetside, that of money and purchased items. Because game economies are often tied to level, this gives higher levels an unfair advantage which would ruin the carefully guarded level balance of the game.

I have therefore devised a new system seperate from the weapons and vehicles in the game, that follows the "higher levels just means more versatility not power" and allows for the purchase of essential items in the field when an equipment terminal or AMS is not available. As will soon be seen, this system ties very closely to the Urban Outposts concept.

[Hayoo]

I liked EarlyDawn's question and answer format for introducing a new idea (props, Man!) so I'll try to immitate it here:

What is the Rank Salary system?

Rather than try to simulate an economy where players have to grind to earn more riches, this new system simulates regular Army pay which increases in its amount per cycle as you rise in rank. If needs be, "Pay" can be substitued with "Acquisition" or "Resource" points so as not to turn off RPG-haters.

But won't that give BR20's an unfair advantage over the lower ranks?

BR20's will not be able to accumulate vast sums, because there will be a limit on how much each character can save in their account.

There are limits on how much you can save? How does that work?

A BR1 will earn, say 10 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 125 resource points at any one time.

A BR10 will earn, say 25 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 100 resource points at any one time.

A BR20 will earn, say 50 resource points a week, and his account can only hold up to 75 resource points at any one time.

Why are there limits?

This keeps the ranks on par with one another. A lower rank earns less per cycle than a BR20, but can hold more in the longrun and able to acquire more equipment at one time than a BR20. On the other hand, a BR20 will be able to acquire the same expensive equipment or features more often, but only a few each cycle and not have enough left over for spare ammo if say a generator went offline.

How does the game explain these limits?

Like a computer's hard drive, each character's matrix can only hold so much information. Some of this hard drive space is used as memory to hold skills and implant slots. The rest can be set aside for salary. But the higher you rise in rank, the more 'memory' of your matrix is being used to hold all your skills, implant slots, and abilities. There is less room to hold your salary.

For example: At BR1, very little space is being used, a few cert points perhaps. The rest allows room for accumulation of credits/resource points/whatever. At BR10, more of a character's matrix is held by cert points and an implant slot. At BR20, most of his matrix is holding the data for maximum cert points and 3 implant slots.

Ok, so we have a salary. What can I get with this salary?

Because each empire provides troops with most of the weaponry it needs, salaries will only be used to acquire supplimental items, replacement items when an AMS or base is not available, or acquire special features that are only available to outfits.

Are these uber items or features?

No, in keeping with the spirit of Planetside any item or feature I dream up will not have an overpowering role on the battlefield, but merely provide more options or versatility to player roles. If an item is found to have a detrimental or elitist effect on gameplay, it will be removed immediately.

Where can I get these items and features?

In most facilities and urban outposts are Goods Terminals. At these terminals you can acquire standard ammunition, medical supplies, repair equipment, goofy harmless items, avatar customizatoin items, weapon customization items (like a laser light) etc. The ability to purchase these items when they are otherwise unavailable (AMS destroyed, generator down) provides more options, versatility, and fun to a character's roles.

What are the Outfit features we can get with our salary?

An example of a feature you can purchase is an outfit's ability to store vehicles (see Vehicle Storage Concept). A player can drive up to any friendly base or tower's repair silo that is connected to the Supply Line and save their vehicle for acquisition at a friendly vehicle terminal later. The cost of storage is automatically deducted from their account.

Cool, so I can get some of the features that Outfits purchase with outfit points. So how often can I do this, if I'm of low rank and how does that compare to a higher rank?

BR1's would not be able to do this as frequently as a BR20, but then again, if a BR1 has saved up enough in their account, they can purchase storage for a vehicle, acquire more items, customize something, acquire some extra ammo, and maybe get a canister of fireworks or whatever all once. A BR20, on the other hand could only afford one or two of those more expensive items at once before having to wait for their next cycle to replenish their account.

Can you give me a clearer example with hard numbers?

BR1 has saved up 100 points and buys 24 items and features totalling 90. He is left with 10. On his next cycle he will get 10 points, bringing his account balance to 20. The BR1 will be able to buy a few items for 20 or wait to save up again.

BR20 has saved up 75 points and buys 2 or 3 items and features totalling 75. He is left with 0 and is unable to purchase anything else until his next cycle. On his next cycle he will get 50 points, bringing his account balance to 50. The BR20 will be able to buy a few more big-ticket items again.

Can I transfer salary to another player?

No, as this would cause Muling, players creating multiple characters to build up accounts. You may purchase items for other players, but most items aren't rare or so expensive as unattainable. These items are not treasures or things to be hoarded but rather a key to being more versitle or having more options or a backup plan when things hit the fan.

What is to stop a player from Muling the equipment itself, i.e. buying a bunch of stuff and trading it to their main character?

A system would be in place to detect inactive characters who have very little activity but a lot of purchasing and no kills or deaths; tell-tale signs of twinking/muling. Characters found doing this will be warned or closed.

What happens if I have 100 in my account and I rise in rank that lowers my allowed amount?

You will not lose the amount you already have, but every cycle that you get more salary, it will not raise your account beyond your highest amount allowed. Savings only increase up to the allowed amount and then are lost beyond that, like water spilling out of an overflowing bucket. This is not to be feared, however, as every player will get more free credits on the next cycle.

[7ruth]

I whole heartedly agree with this system, but when we get urban content added I wont beable to buy my Farrai <_<

No cruising fo meh...

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by 7ruth@Sep 25 2004, 05:51 PM
I whole heartedly agree with this system, but when we get urban content added I wont beable to buy my Farrai <_<

No cruising fo meh...

hehe. actually, YES YOU WILL! :)

From the beginning, when I thought Auraxis was being colonized and we had more people planetside, I always thought it would be cool to steal vehicles from the urban outposts. Like jacking a hovercar or something from a parking garage.

Sure it has zero armor, no weapons, and a tiny trunk, but it's fast on fairly flat surfaces like roads. You would need to hack into the parking garage, then have enough funds to purchase the vehicle.

There could be other models like a jeep which would have no armor, no weapons, but have good handling off-road.

A utility vehicle, like a worker's truck, would also be available to haul things when a vehicle terminal is not available, but again it has no armor and no weapons and isnt very fast in it's own right.

How could this make planetside more fun? Well, when a player is in a "civilian" vehicle, their IFF wouldn't register with anyone except Base defenses like turrets and spitfires (to prevent people from just waltzing into a base). But this allows spec ops teams to incert into an Urban Outpost undetected, grab a vehicle, and take it close to their destination behind enemy lines, abandon the vehicle, and complete their mission. Not as fast as a Galaxy or Phantasm but there will be new goals and features in Planetside that will encourage teams to insert and call for extractions to get the item to safety.

Granted, all civilian vehicles will have to be treated with extreme caution. Drive one at your own risk! :P I think maybe the name will appear but not be red or green, but some other neutral color like white or gray.

[Earlydawn]

Finalized an item list?

[Hayoo]

I don't have a complete one but these are some of the things you could get:

Ammo: ($)

• Standard ammo
• AP ammo
• Shotgun ammo
• Energy ammo
• Molotav Cocktail (alcohol grenade, thrown like a grenade, 1 per clip, does plasma type damage) :P

Support items ($$):

• Repair juice
• Med juice
• Med kits
• Armor patches
• Regen patches
• Stimpacks
• BANK tool
• Med tool
• REK tool
• Nano-gun tool
• Backpack
• Food bar - slowly regenerates health over time, smaller than medkit
• Energy drink - slowly regenerates stamina over time

Utility items ($$$$):

• 02 tanks (for extended stay under water)
• Utility vehicles from bases (hides IFF from enemy unless close by; you can steal these from enemy facilities; no armor, no weapons, tiny trunk, either fast or off-road; 1, 2, and 4-man models)
• Map Beacons (kind of a smoke grenade seen only by Squad; throw and it makes a pulsing spot on your map like an LLU, instant flashing and delayed-start modes)
• NTU battery - adds temporary ntu supply for vehicle capacitor (expensive, for emergencies)
• Possibly a portable generator that can power one terminal for a limited time and then deconstruct

Weapon items ($$$):

• Laser sight (for show, or perhaps for increased accuracy but big increase in reload or fire time).
• Silencer barrel (increases COF a little in exchange for quieter shots)
• Bayonet for rifle (adds additional fire mode to rifle)

Items for fun ($$):

• Fireworks (harmless grenade-type items for fun, celebration)
• Need other cheap, fun items that players can screw around with.

Purchasable Features ($$$-to-$$$$$):

• Vehicle storage
• Vehicle repairs at a tower silo not attached to supply line (one-time fee activates silo for brief period in which anyone can use it)
• Avatar customizations (berets, uniforms, branch pins, other stuff that's an Outfit perk)
• Drop-pod a non-tech vehicle

I'll be able to create a lot more with your guys' help. Just remember the items available should not give an unfair advantage over any player. Cost vs Risk and all that. If something does good in one spot, it must have a drawback somewhere else. Sometimes this drawback can be the "price" but mostly a penalty in something else like in stamina regeneration, slow foot speed, inceased COF, etc.

[7ruth]

Ill wait for Cityside then...

[Lazerus King]

Need other cheap, fun items that players can screw around with.

There could be hundreds.... IE

Kite (So you could tell them to go fly a)
OOOOOO..... Better.

Target on a string (Kite). Have your buddies shoot at the target while you move it about. Takes X amount of damage and spashes up on the killers screen a good job, or marksman, message. Possibly tied to marksman merit badge.
You could also have small remote controlled drones to scoot around on the ground.

Maybe have them shoot back, no damage but annoying.

[Redford Blade]

A remote-control (or just wind-up) car, that can be for fun, or be used in battle to set off mines.

Balloons! By default, they are tied to the avatar's wrist or backpack, but can be released. If released, they should float upwards (just make them a really slow rocket to save on programming) and appear on the mini-map as large projectiles.

Training Dummies! Each one looks similar to a soldier of whatever Empire purchases them, but on closer inspection, has a rag-doll type face, and indistinct armor. These can be great for parties, outfit base decoration, and for distracting enemy troops in battle.

Beer Grenades would make parties more fun, by giving players the ability to get wasted and act like idiots. (Not that they need any help for that) "Intoxication Canisters" (I doubt they would really allow beer) are like grenades, but come one to a "clip" and look like futuristic beer cans. When thrown, they explode with a radiator-like field that makes CoF's bloom like mad. This could either be a continuos effect like plasma, or an area-of-effect thing like the Radiator. Imagine how much fun outfits could have with drunken duels!

Possible grappling hooks

it would be awesome if you could by an autopilot drone, then put it in a vehicle, and point out a waypoint for it. That would be incredible, so you could gun a vanguard while the drone drives for you. But that doesn't mean that it's a smart drone, so it will only drive on the paths, and will not try to avoid enemys. Don't know about this, but redford's idea of the remote control thing would be awesome, cause then you could send a decoy basalisk, while you sneak in as a cloaker.

Just a couple of ideas

I had envisioned just a small RC car as a sort of toy, but Jim's idea intrigues me. It could be an exceptionally expensive service (Auraxis Taxi), and will only work on certain vehicles. Perhaps the buyer is given a map, and a set number of waypoints.

Concept:

Two soldiers in an Urban zone behind enemy lines (look at the Urban zone example on the main site for how this came about) have a marauder, but the driver is dead and has respawned back at base. They need to get away before the enemy overruns the urban zone. Luckily, the driver was kind enough to store the vehicle in a garage, and by accessing the garage terminal, they purchase the exorbitantly expensive "Autodrive." The buyer is shown a continental map, and is given a maximum of five waypoints to place. The vehicle will follow them in order, so the buyer must place them carefully, and noting terrain. Once finished, the vehicle will roll out of the garage and sit at the entrance for approximately 30 sec. The soldiers grab any last-moment gear they might need, and hop in to the gunner seats. At the end of the 30 sec, the Marauder rolls off to its first waypoint at maximum speed.

This reminds me, I believe that we should be able to store civilian vehicles along with other vehicles. It would also be nice if we could customize them as one of the medium-priced services. Imagine a Lowrider ANT!

[Redford Blade]

Ahem! Just so credit goes where credit is due:

I had envisioned just a small RC car as a sort of toy, but Jim's idea intrigues me. It could be an exceptionally expensive service (Auraxis Taxi), and will only work on certain vehicles. Perhaps the buyer is given a map, and a set number of waypoints.

Concept:

Two soldiers in an Urban zone behind enemy lines (look at the Urban zone example on the main site for how this came about) have a marauder, but the driver is dead and has respawned back at base. They need to get away before the enemy overruns the urban zone. Luckily, the driver was kind enough to store the vehicle in a garage, and by accessing the garage terminal, they purchase the exorbitantly expensive "Autodrive." The buyer is shown a continental map, and is given a maximum of five waypoints to place. The vehicle will follow them in order, so the buyer must place them carefully, and noting terrain. Once finished, the vehicle will roll out of the garage and sit at the entrance for approximately 30 sec. The soldiers grab any last-moment gear they might need, and hop in to the gunner seats. At the end of the 30 sec, the Marauder rolls off to its first waypoint at maximum speed.

This reminds me, I believe that we should be able to store civilian vehicles along with other vehicles. It would also be nice if we could customize them as one of the medium-priced services. Imagine a Lowrider ANT!

We also need some sort of tracking device for vehicles, like firing a tracer at an AMS.

[Hayoo]

lol.

If you guys want to see where I'm going with Rank Salaries, try to think of Goods Terminals as a PX Store on a military base. The military provides the essential hardware, but troops can customize their combat experience or off-duty experience with useful items, survival gear, or little nick-nacks.

The Taxi system is interesting...I would probably modify it to act like the Horse routes in DAOC or like my Maglev idea for Urban Outposts, i.e. established routes you can pay for and be transported to so long as your destination is in friendly hands.

Balloons would be interesting and compliment fireworks as expressions of community gregariousness.

Beer....um, how would you simulate drunkeness in PS? :lol: We'll probably keep this one off the list.

Instead of a kite, I wouldn't mind a target drone for teammates to practice leading a target.

Let's keep those creative juices flowing. Need more practical battlefield applications. Soldiers usually buy such non-standard items like wipes to clean equipment, body care items, maybe binoculars or walkmans, extra satchels or better body armor, snacks...that kind of thing. We need things that promote this feeling that items available can augment your playing experience a little and let you have more fun or a unique way of surviving.

[Redford Blade]

However you think the taxi system should work. I trust your judgement on that one.

The "Intoxication Field" isn't a "beer grenade" per say, so much as it is a "recreational situation enhancer." *nods vigorously* Yes! Thats what it is. Just because the container looks (slightly) like a can of beer, slows movement speeds, causes massive CoF bloom, and ?changes the color of your vision?, it isn't beer. ;)

Something I'm almost certain we can't put in is *ahem* "magazines," even though I see soldiers buying those whenever I go by the PX. ;) Farcry has some funny stuff, like "Merc Illustrated Swimsuit Edition," which is clean enough for PS to imitate. <s>Vanu Vixens, TR Treats, New Cu...</s> nevermind :D I can't imagine any use for them, anyway, other than as a morale booster, or a prize for outfit competitions.

Stamina pills- Increases stamina by 50? points, but takes away 15-20? HP

PDA- Allows you to save chat logs into a text file on your hard-drive. Like screenshots for the chat box. I've had some great conversations with my squad and outfit-mates, and chat can also be used as a training tool.

[Earlydawn]

Very good ideas.

[Hayoo]

Yeah, those items would be pretty funny to have. I'm still wary of that intoxication field. While fun to inflict on people, it's a stretch to think that each Empire's ideology would allow for that kind of thing. :P

The stamina pill in perticular is interesting too.

[Redford Blade]

Though I still think Intox Nades would be a fun toy for parties and outfit functions (even if it was 'outlawed' by certain empires, I doubt it could be enforced), it occurred to me that such effects would make it inordinately useful in a siege. Just toss one or two of these into a tower, and the defenders' Cones of Fire would be large enough to miss a MAX at point-blank range. (Exaggerating) So, I agree that they are too risky to implement.

[Cass]

I want a truck that just looks like a AMS cab with a box on the back that has medium armour no wepons and a massive trunk.

It could be used for bringing extra sniper ammo and medpacks to snuipers that can or dont want to run all the way back to your AMS.

or

if NTUs where converted into boxs it could function as a ANT with a biger capacity

and more things but i can not think of any of them right now.

[Hayoo]

That's what I would like as well, Cass. Some kind of utility truck to haul lots of gear, like ACEs or ammo, when an AMS isn't around.

[Earlydawn]

Just get an assault buggy/common-pool Deliverer with a towable storage if you have field assault. :D

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Oct 9 2004, 03:36 AM
Just get an assault buggy/common-pool Deliverer with a towable storage if you have field assault. :D

Ah, but the utility truck is for those who don't have the enforcer or deliverer. :)

[Redford Blade]

I'd suggest making the utility truck come with any other vehicle cert, similar to ANT. To limit its use, make it available only from Tech Plants. To avoid waves of soldiers driving their massive trucks into enemy bases and crushing soldiers/dodging tanks, just give them pathetic armor. The base unit could even be equipped with a passenger bay instead of cargo, and function as the bus mentioned in the Empire Specific Sancs thread.

[Earlydawn]

Hm, I'm thinking make this vehicle have a huge trunk, plus let it carry supply crates. That way, the Galaxy, my "Crawler" Sunderer varient, and this truck could all drop equipment crates for infantry.

Maybe let the lodestar carry a few, as well? In my perfect Earlydawn world, the Lodestar could carry a vehicle (same restrictions as it has now, namely none.), two supply crates for airdrop, four MAXes, and repair / rearm / refuel.

Hayoo, you need to post the system you had for the supply drops so everybody knows what I'm talking about.

[Hayoo]

Sure, but I need a small break. I'm beat today. :) Thankfully my interview got pushed back for tomorrow. So now that I put up part of the Flash demo, today I'm going to take it easy and run through the 3D Studio tutorials to get reaquainted with the interface.

[7ruth]

Interview for what? :rolleyes:

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by 7ruth@Oct 11 2004, 09:57 PM
Interview for what? :rolleyes:

http://www.jht.com/

[Earlydawn]

I dunno boss, they have a distinctly Umbrella feel to them. Oh yes, "Building a better future" and "Improving our world" and all that.

Then, wham. You're a zombie.

[Hayoo]

lol. Well they get to do Flash-based training for the military. I'd get to build 3d models of subs, tanks, choppers, and blow them all up or make cutaways and such. However, since I'm not an expert modeller but an all-round multimedia artist, it's going to be a tough sell. Luckily I pick things up quickly, but I have to show them that somehow. :P

[7ruth]

Well good luck man, Hope you get an Influx of cash... PS is expensive :)

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by 7ruth@Oct 12 2004, 02:22 AM
Well good luck man, Hope you get an Influx of cash...

Thanks man.

PS is expensive :)

I don't know, PS is the least costly of all my bills:

$67 - Broadband
$80 - water and sewer
$110 - Car insurance
$180 - Health insurance
$610 - Rent

etc.


Oh, I had the interview a few hours ago. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon and we'll see if I'm the man for the job or not. :)

[Earlydawn]

Thoughts:

• Make weapon modifications avaliable to the supressor like I posed some time ago. Make said upgrades expensive, but persistant. As soon as you buy mods for it, they remain equipped. You don't have to rebuy for each gun.
  
• Food, drinks, MREs. Good ideas.
  
• As we've been saying, Advanced Technicians will be able to install special modules in vehicle trunks. Prehaps allow higher end models to be buyable?
  
• Alternatively, make the modules avaliable to anyone, but only installable by an Adv. Technician, and give them long timers, such as 30 to 45 minutes. However, allow players to place them back in their invs and bring back to the PX terminal for recharging.
  
• Paintball / MILES gear for no-damage, anywhere practice. While you could set up custom scenerios at your Outfit Barracks if you have a training facility, would be good for in-the-field practice or outfits who don't have a barracks / training upgrades.
  
• Allow Players to buy more then two vehicle storage slots, but require a per pay cycle fee to maintain the extra slots?
  
• "Buy" an upgrade that increases your locker space but takes a cut of your pay per cycle.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Oct 13 2004, 03:32 AM
Thoughts:[list]
Make weapon modifications avaliable to the supressor like I posed some time ago. Make said upgrades expensive, but persistant. As soon as you buy mods for it, they remain equipped. You don't have to rebuy for each gun.

Persistant stuff would go to the Dev's advanced abilities, or some similar feature, I think. Salary items and abilities are meant to be temporary.

• As we've been saying, Advanced Technicians will be able to install special modules in vehicle trunks. Prehaps allow higher end models to be buyable?
  
  
  
• Alternatively, make the modules avaliable to anyone, but only installable by an Adv. Technician, and give them long timers, such as 30 to 45 minutes. However, allow players to place them back in their invs and bring back to the PX terminal for recharging.
  

Well, the reason I had only Adv Techs able to acquire the sys upgrades is I wanted to avoid the scenario of a grunt getting a module from the terminal himself and then goes spamming the courtyard for an adv tech to install it for him.

I could compromise though by allowing anyone to install a module once it's acquired from a terminal. That way, a grunt is more likely to get a module he can install himself because an Adv Tech would be right there at the terminal with everyone else, dispensing modules to those who are going to get vehicles. Having it the other way around could turn the courtyards into an open market. :)

Sys Upgrades are most useful for squads because one guy can equip the whole unit. It's a little harder for loners to get them frequently but still possble.

I'll have to think on the 'recharging' sys upgrades. I want to avoid people constantly going back and recharging them like they would their fuel, just so they can avoid having to rely on an adv tech to get them another.

[*]Paintball / MILES gear for no-damage, anywhere practice. While you could set up custom scenerios at your Outfit Barracks if you have a training facility, would be good for in-the-field practice or outfits who don't have a barracks / training upgrades.

Nice idea.

[*]Allow Players to buy more then two vehicle storage slots, but require a per pay cycle fee to maintain the extra slots?

That's certainly possible.

[*]"Buy" an upgrade that increases your locker space but takes a cut of your pay per cycle.

Hmm. A possibility. I'd need to create another window in the Character info pane that shows salary and bills. :)

[Earlydawn]

I certainly don't think weapon mods (in this case, the Supressor) should be Merit Commendation linked. I'd much rather just see them regularly avaliable as opposed to that.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Oct 13 2004, 04:19 PM
I certainly don't think weapon mods (in this case, the Supressor) should be Merit Commendation linked. I'd much rather just see them regularly avaliable as opposed to that.

Ok, well persistant mods can be for some other feature than merits then, but I want the goods terminals only used to temporarily enhance a character. Otherwise it only favors the rich, who would be able to get persistant enhancements faster and more frequently than low levels. To curb that we'd have to invent all kinds of rules and restrictions and it's much easier to just say everything has a shelf-life and then you gotta rebuy it.

[Earlydawn]

I thought the entire concept was slated to be that low level players and high level players are EQUAL, in the sense that lower level players can hold more money back make it slower, while upper level players make more but can't hold as much.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Oct 18 2004, 03:37 PM
I thought the entire concept was slated to be that low level players and high level players are EQUAL, in the sense that lower level players can hold more money back make it slower, while upper level players make more but can't hold as much.

Yes, they would be equal, but only so long as it is never under a system where the modifications or goods become persistantly available. That only favors the high-ranks. It's the one danger of a game economy I'm trying to avoid like the plague.

Let's use the above salaries as an example:

• A BR1 will earn, say 10 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 120 resource points at any one time.
  
  A BR20 will earn, say 50 resource points a week, and his account can only hold up to 75 resource points at any one time.
  
  Permanent weapons modifications (buy once, always there) are expensive and cost 60 or so each (this is to keep high ranks from buying more than one at a time).

• Within 1 cycle, the BR20 has 1 persistant wep module, with 15 credits left over. the BR1 has none and desperately hoards his cash to get the same item as quickly as possible.
• Within 3 cycles, the BR20 has 3 wep mods, the BR1 still has none.
• Within 6 cycles, the BR20 now has 6 weapon mods, the BR1 has one.
• Within 9 cycles, the BR20 now has 9 wep mods, the BR1 has only one.
• Within 12 cycles, the BR20 now has 12 weapon mods whenever he wants, the BR1 only has two.

Persistant items, especially the items listed, just wouldn't work IMO. It's like having access to all certs at once. Temporary items keep things in check, otherwise a high rank will eventually have all of the permanent items significantly sooner than a low rank could get them, and then they only have the lesser items to spend on. By increasing the risk of losing them, we increase their value. Kinda like the BFR timers in a way.

On a related note, I also want to prevent the addon items from appearing in backpacks when a player dies. Otherwise players will see someone walking around with that cool scope and TK them (or worse, let them die unassisted to an enemy), and then loot their backpack. :lol: Instead all they'll see is the original weapon without the enhancement/s.

[Earlydawn]

I yield. Weapon mods are standard issue for the supressor from the equipment terminals.

THis a a great idea for implemeting an otherwise controversial feature. I really like the food/drink purchase. They should be the same size as nades.

The temp gen for a terminal or R&R point is killer!

My own ideas:

extra emotes
/em He went that-a-way or some silliness
/em smile for the camera ( hold a hail position for 20 seconds)

( all of these would last as long as you dont die, and could be pick up from a pack)
silencer ( MA only)
flash guard ( if not with above) ( MA only)
muzzle brake ( MA only)

flipkit ( lets you put two clips together for half the time to reload) needs a counter nerf like takes up pack space or reduces each clip by 2- 3 shots

Sniper netting you cast this over yourself to semi camo yourself. 1 time use, must be crouched. takes pack space till used like medkit

[Redford Blade]

The extra emotes would be welcome, and I'd like to have faster reloads, but snipers are dangerous enough as it is, without giving them camo. I think this is why the Developers didn't implement the prone position into the game.

On the other hand, deployable camo emplacements (with maybe 15-25 armor) would be useful in taking down BFRs. A sniper or other soldier could hide behind the emplacement, shielded from the BFR's view. Once the machine has walked past, the soldier pops out and blasts the shield generator.

[Tiletron|Hyncharas]

It is possible that there would be an economy of some sort on Auraxis, as according to the story Humans have been there for 30 years already, so an infrastructure must have existed. If you would to go further into this, Rank Salaries could be dependent on also the position you hold in a squad or outfit.

For example, at the moment there are only Squad Leaders and Platoon Leaders. So, what if you were to structure the ranks in an outfit as you would in the normal military/airforce (e.g. have officers based on their skills, or a SIC in a squad while the leader is unavailable)?

[Polgara]

Originally posted by Redford Blade@Oct 20 2004, 03:23 PM
I think this is why the Developers didn't implement the prone position into the game.

They wanted to put this in the game, but didn't becuase they would have to make many new animations for each armor class, but they thought this would make the game to laggy.

The idea of rank salarys is IMO a good idea, it would provide people with other items to aim for, and with the BFR's people are gonna need some kind of advantage. They should definetly not be lootable tho, otherwise there could be a lot TKing.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by Tiletron|Hyncharas@Oct 20 2004, 12:52 PM
It is possible that there would be an economy of some sort on Auraxis, as according to the story Humans have been there for 30 years already, so an infrastructure must have existed. If you would to go further into this, Rank Salaries could be dependent on also the position you hold in a squad or outfit.

For example, at the moment there are only Squad Leaders and Platoon Leaders. So, what if you were to structure the ranks in an outfit as you would in the normal military/airforce (e.g. have officers based on their skills, or a SIC in a squad while the leader is unavailable)?

I'm afraid basing salary on outfit rank or even unit rank wouldn't work very well. There would be nothing to stop people from promoting friends to top outift ranks or forming multiple 2-man squads just to cash in.

But fear not. In addition to the straight forward salary-for-rank feature, I intend to award "salary bonuses" for certain things like base captures, HQ captures, and the like. That way, low-ranks and high-ranks alike can actually work for that added boost between pay cycles.

[FeckinOtter]

Whilst I really like the idea of an economy, i dont think it is something that will work with PS. Planetside has simply grown up too long without one and adding one would not only require massive balancing and rules to make it equal but it something that a large proportion of the community would oppose.

But i will try to work with the idea. I could see a basic wage flowing in for all characters, and that battle rank has nothing to do with how much you get. That way it balances out nice and easy. This would then allow the purchase of simple and not overpowering upgrades to weapons and vehicles that would otherwise not be available, of course the supply of these would be limited by the wage you were bringing in and every player would like to keep there upgraded weapon for as long as possible (a extra reason not to be a lemming)

Good upgrades that i can think of off the top of my head are silencers, muzzle suppressors, stabalisers for small COF buffs, and stuff like that. Spawning and not death results in the upgrade being lost and it is tied to the person and not the item itself, so no trade, tking or looting,

Then you can have the aesthestic and outift upgrades that would probabaly entail an upkeep cost, there are many obvious ideas that can be thrown in here.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by FeckinOtter@Oct 26 2004, 12:34 AM
Whilst I really like the idea of an economy, i dont think it is something that will work with PS. Planetside has simply grown up too long without one and adding one would not only require massive balancing and rules to make it equal but it something that a large proportion of the community would oppose.

What massive balancing and rules are you refering to? I've already covered the simple restrictions in the Q&A, as far as I know.

But i will try to work with the idea. I could see a basic wage flowing in for all characters, and that battle rank has nothing to do with how much you get. That way it balances out nice and easy. This would then allow the purchase of simple and not overpowering upgrades to weapons and vehicles that would otherwise not be available,

There are no overpowering upgrades. It's clearly stated that anything that might benefit takes something else away? Overpowering vehicles? Um...where? The only vehicles mentioned in this thread are unarmed, armoreless ones.

of course the supply of these would be limited by the wage you were bringing in and every player would like to keep there upgraded weapon for as long as possible (a extra reason not to be a lemming)

That's already in there.

Good upgrades that i can think of off the top of my head are silencers, muzzle suppressors, stabalisers for small COF buffs, and stuff like that.

Yes, those are already in there.

Spawning and not death results in the upgrade being lost and it is tied to the person and not the item itself, so no trade, tking or looting,

It's already in there that you cannot trade, tk, or loot an item.

Then you can have the aesthestic and outift upgrades that would probabaly entail an upkeep cost, there are many obvious ideas that can be thrown in here.

Outfits already have an economy system of sorts that's the outfit points. Rank Salaries is merely for accessories, like a PX Store. You can't buy a rifle at one, but you can buy a dufflebag to carry more clips, etc.
hmmm

[FeckinOtter]

I know half the stuff is already in there :P
Just putting it all in one place, really for my benefit, was how my mind was working at the time.

Didnt say any of your ideas were overpowering, was simply stating that no overpowering items should be put in such an idea.

The outfit bit was put in because outfit points are accrued by experience points meaning some outfits can gain more than others simply due to better players, using the fixed wage for such a system as well would allow outfits who arent as successful to gain access to some items via the wage system whilst others would be in place for the more successful outfits to show they are more successful.

And again with the balancing it was how my mind was working at the time, reading through an entire post for the first time and then posting rather than posting all the way through it means i am not really part of the discussion :)

And the massive balancing would be for a true planetside economy rather than the cut down one that seems to suggested, a true one would require massive playtesting even with your outlined rules.

This is all great and all but how do you make planetside do these things do you work with them and how are you going to get credit for these great ideas oh yeah great concept by the way :)

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by Dryice2033@Nov 24 2004, 09:12 PM
how do you make planetside do these things

Can't. I can only try to convince them through good presentation and commonsense.

do you work with them

Nope. :)

and how are you going to get credit for these great ideas

Well I was never seeking credit, I just want what's best for Planetside.

oh yeah great concept by the way :)

Thanks!

I don't know if you guys are still looking for Ideas but I think in the Buying things, you should be able to modify your Vehicle's... Why cant a parked mossie or Reaver not CLOAK... If its not engaged in battle or movin it doesn't hurt.. As long as it is landed it would cloak and as soon as it takes off it uncloaks.. Same could be purchased for other small vehicles like harraser maybe not just when they stop but if its dismounted? i don't know Would probably have to be Xpensive but a permanant purchase. Something you always have after you buy it first time.

Originally posted by Hayoo@Sep 25 2004, 05:36 PM
I liked EarlyDawn's question and answer format for introducing a new idea (props, Man!) so I'll try to immitate it here:

What is the Rank Salary system?

Rather than try to simulate an economy where players have to grind to earn more riches, this new system simulates regular Army pay which increases in its amount per cycle as you rise in rank. If needs be, "Pay" can be substitued with "Acquisition" or "Resource" points so as not to turn off RPG-haters.

But won't that give BR20's an unfair advantage over the lower ranks?

BR20's will not be able to accumulate vast sums, because there will be a limit on how much each character can save in their account.

There are limits on how much you can save? How does that work?

A BR1 will earn, say 10 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 125 resource points at any one time.

A BR10 will earn, say 25 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 100 resource points at any one time.

A BR20 will earn, say 50 resource points a week, and his account can only hold up to 75 resource points at any one time.

Why are there limits?

This keeps the ranks on par with one another. A lower rank earns less per cycle than a BR20, but can hold more in the longrun and able to acquire more equipment at one time than a BR20. On the other hand, a BR20 will be able to acquire the same expensive equipment or features more often, but only a few each cycle and not have enough left over for spare ammo if say a generator went offline.

How does the game explain these limits?

Like a computer's hard drive, each character's matrix can only hold so much information. Some of this hard drive space is used as memory to hold skills and implant slots. The rest can be set aside for salary. But the higher you rise in rank, the more 'memory' of your matrix is being used to hold all your skills, implant slots, and abilities. There is less room to hold your salary.

For example: At BR1, very little space is being used, a few cert points perhaps. The rest allows room for accumulation of credits/resource points/whatever. At BR10, more of a character's matrix is held by cert points and an implant slot. At BR20, most of his matrix is holding the data for maximum cert points and 3 implant slots.

Ok, so we have a salary. What can I get with this salary?

Because each empire provides troops with most of the weaponry it needs, salaries will only be used to acquire supplimental items, replacement items when an AMS or base is not available, or acquire special features that are only available to outfits.

Are these uber items or features?

No, in keeping with the spirit of Planetside any item or feature I dream up will not have an overpowering role on the battlefield, but merely provide more options or versatility to player roles. If an item is found to have a detrimental or elitist effect on gameplay, it will be removed immediately.

Where can I get these items and features?

In most facilities and urban outposts are Goods Terminals. At these terminals you can acquire standard ammunition, medical supplies, repair equipment, goofy harmless items, avatar customizatoin items, weapon customization items (like a laser light) etc. The ability to purchase these items when they are otherwise unavailable (AMS destroyed, generator down) provides more options, versatility, and fun to a character's roles.

What are the Outfit features we can get with our salary?

An example of a feature you can purchase is an outfit's ability to store vehicles (see Vehicle Storage Concept). A player can drive up to any friendly base or tower's repair silo that is connected to the Supply Line and save their vehicle for acquisition at a friendly vehicle terminal later. The cost of storage is automatically deducted from their account.

Cool, so I can get some of the features that Outfits purchase with outfit points. So how often can I do this, if I'm of low rank and how does that compare to a higher rank?

BR1's would not be able to do this as frequently as a BR20, but then again, if a BR1 has saved up enough in their account, they can purchase storage for a vehicle, acquire more items, customize something, acquire some extra ammo, and maybe get a canister of fireworks or whatever all once. A BR20, on the other hand could only afford one or two of those more expensive items at once before having to wait for their next cycle to replenish their account.

Can you give me a clearer example with hard numbers?

BR1 has saved up 100 points and buys 24 items and features totalling 90. He is left with 10. On his next cycle he will get 10 points, bringing his account balance to 20. The BR1 will be able to buy a few items for 20 or wait to save up again.

BR20 has saved up 75 points and buys 2 or 3 items and features totalling 75. He is left with 0 and is unable to purchase anything else until his next cycle. On his next cycle he will get 50 points, bringing his account balance to 50. The BR20 will be able to buy a few more big-ticket items again.

Can I transfer salary to another player?

No, as this would cause Muling, players creating multiple characters to build up accounts. You may purchase items for other players, but most items aren't rare or so expensive as unattainable. These items are not treasures or things to be hoarded but rather a key to being more versitle or having more options or a backup plan when things hit the fan.

What is to stop a player from Muling the equipment itself, i.e. buying a bunch of stuff and trading it to their main character?

A system would be in place to detect inactive characters who have very little activity but a lot of purchasing and no kills or deaths; tell-tale signs of twinking/muling. Characters found doing this will be warned or closed.

What happens if I have 100 in my account and I rise in rank that lowers my allowed amount?

You will not lose the amount you already have, but every cycle that you get more salary, it will not raise your account beyond your highest amount allowed. Savings only increase up to the allowed amount and then are lost beyond that, like water spilling out of an overflowing bucket. This is not to be feared, however, as every player will get more free credits on the next cycle.

I like this market idea. I especially like the costomize character and weapons part. Here are a few suggestions for this concept.


Color quadenating: Like which part of your empires colors shows up on what part of your armor.

Tatoos: I thought this would just be a cool addition that would show up on your characters info. (Their would be a limit of around three)

Holiday stuff: Personaly, I'd like to be able to wear the santa hats and have the after death pumpkin packs.

FIreworks: Nothing says victory like fireworks!

Armor addons: Why wait for a command rank addon, when you could buy one!

Food: This would make you temporaroly more efective in combat.

Lazer sight: The best part of any balanced weapon!

Weapon computer: That did nothing but made your rifle look cool.

Tags: Completely vadalize and humiliate your opponents by tagging their bases. (Even in the heat of battle you have a little extra time to goof off.)

(Last but not least) Aircraft kill list: Like WWII fighter pilots you could advartize your kills in an aircraft on the side of the plane. (Would still remain even if you crashed.)

I hope you consider these possibilities. I would shure engoy my ideas being adopted into the PlanetSide community! :lol:

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by Nodrog (from Werner)@Feb 11 2005, 10:32 PM
I like this market idea. I especially like the costomize character and weapons part. Here are a few suggestions for this concept.


Color quadenating: Like which part of your empires colors shows up on what part of your armor.

Tatoos: I thought this would just be a cool addition that would show up on your characters info. (Their would be a limit of around three)

Holiday stuff: Personaly, I'd like to be able to wear the santa hats and have the after death pumpkin packs.

FIreworks: Nothing says victory like fireworks!

Armor addons: Why wait for a command rank addon, when you could buy one!

Food: This would make you temporaroly more efective in combat.

Lazer sight: The best part of any balanced weapon!

Weapon computer: That did nothing but made your rifle look cool.

Tags: Completely vadalize and humiliate your opponents by tagging their bases. (Even in the heat of battle you have a little extra time to goof off.)

(Last but not least) Aircraft kill list: Like WWII fighter pilots you could advartize your kills in an aircraft on the side of the plane. (Would still remain even if you crashed.)

I hope you consider these possibilities. I would shure engoy my ideas being adopted into the PlanetSide community! :lol:

Glad you like the ideas, Nodrog. :)

Tatoos would be interesting, but they'd require some shirtless armor since the clothing we have now covers everything.

Holiday stuff would be a doable purchase item, but CR5 armor is meant to be unique. Anything purchasable would have to be not as great or a different kind of style so as not to devalue the "achievement."

The laser sight shouldn't be too difficult since it's already used in the decimator. I'd love to see a group of guys burst into a room with laser sights on their empire rifles.

What would a weapon computer look like? I haven't heard that term before.

What do you mean by tags? Is that an FPS term for graffiti and stuff?

Now the aircraft kill list is indeed something I've been pondering as well. At the very least I wanted the vehicle merits to show on the outside of relevant vehicles, but Samhayne said he hadn't planned on doing that, although he did say he liked the idea...so maybe someday. I figure that kill silohuettes could be marked in 1, 5, 10, 50, and 100 since players can wrack up a decent amount of kills in a short amount of time.

[Pyrotechnic]

What do you mean by tags? Is that an FPS term for graffiti and stuff?

It's an everyday term for like a signature for a graffiti artist, nothing wild and colourful, just unique. They wouldn't spend ages doing it, they could probably do it in about 10 seconds or less.

[Hayoo]

Published this section to idealab with graphics:

The Rank Salary system is designed to augment the current Certification system, and give more incentive, variety, and versitility to attaining rank. The concept is that every two ranks a player's paid salary increases. And this salary can be used to purchase supplies and extras from a goods terminal (which has its own power supply) apart from equipment terminals which run off the base generator.

To avoid the issue of the rich getting richer we include dynamic restrictions.
Imagine each avatar has a certain data-threshold within their matrix. That each matrix holds their rank, cert, implant, and inventory data, basically their entire existence within Auraxis. At low rank, a soldier's matrix would certainly look a little empty, which would gradually fill as they became more experienced.

Now lets take this model and say that whatever empty space is left becomes storage for a credit system to store a soldier's salary. At low rank a player may have a small salary, but they can hold quite a bit of it. At high rank, a player may have a high salary, but with all that cert and implant data, he can only carry so much at a time.

And so we now have a system where salary is paid in cycles according to rank, and the amount stored is also determined by rank, but the amount decreases as you rise rather than increases.

But what sort of things can you purchase with this salary? Generally only ammo and supplies to help you in the field.

At no time will you use these goods terminals to purchase weapons or vehicles, whether you are certed for them or not. This system does, however, allow for some fun extras to be added. The salary system is most useful when equpiment terminals are offline or destroyed. The goods terminals will continue to function unless destroyed themselves but these can be repaired...or hacked.

A Goods Terminal is located in the Lobby and Lounge of each base.
From these terminals you can purchase ammunition and grenades for your weaons:

You can purchase add-ons for your weapons, some for display, others for slight benefit in exchange for a weapon penalty. It should be noted that the weapon add-ons are exlusive to the player who purchased them and cannot be traded or looted, but will vanish upon death.

You can purchase support equipment such as binoculars, BANKs, and oxygen:

You can purchase medical supplies, one-shot stims, and extra storage packs:

And for fun you can add throwing pies, fireworks, and various clothing to customize your appearance regardless of rank.

The Rank Salary system can also be used as a tactical reward, such as a bonus given when a Merit is achieved, or if a continent is captured, or other combat objectives worthy of reward.

And because the salary is used generally for re-supply, it does not give higher ranks a combat advantage over lower ranks.

More details on the Rank Salary system and its development can be viewed here.

[Kusutto]

NICE Hayoo :D
This will make PS more RPG :]
well... I prefer my ammo free .. but weapon upgrades could definitely use that idea :D

[Blizzard]

all three of the sanctuaries have a nice amount of space between all the villa's in the middle of them. May be we should add an urban area for non-combat activities. no more alt+f4 to get to the mini-surfing game. we would just have to recall to sanc. ^_^

[DrizzCat]

I dunno if the Ammo should have a cost. Unless it's specual Ammo. The Regular Over the Counter Death is nothing fancy so it's not going to take any fancy programming of the nanites to make it. It's just Generic Ammo A and B.

For Fancy stuff, like Tracerless Ammo, Or Rad Rounds and other Fancy Stuff, then Yes make it cost. That way Even if your Flat Broke Credit Wise you can Still get the Basic Ammo to make Kills.

[acespacer]

Originally Posted by DrizzCat

I dunno if the Ammo should have a cost. Unless it's specual Ammo. The Regular Over the Counter Death is nothing fancy so it's not going to take any fancy programming of the nanites to make it. It's just Generic Ammo A and B.

For Fancy stuff, like Tracerless Ammo, Or Rad Rounds and other Fancy Stuff, then Yes make it cost. That way Even if your Flat Broke Credit Wise you can Still get the Basic Ammo to make Kills.

it just means you have to manage you "goods credit" lol
:p

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by Kusutto

NICE Hayoo :D
This will make PS more RPG :]
well... I prefer my ammo free .. but weapon upgrades could definitely use that idea :D

Your ammo is still free from equipment terminals. Goods Terminals are your backup for when a gen goes does down and you can't get ammo from an equip terminal. This doesn't replace the current cert system.

I'd also allow Hacking able to access these since they're a more 'public' terminal. It'd give that 3 cert something to do.

These goods terminals were meant to go with Urban Outposts too, which didn't have spawn tubes or equipment terminals in my version. They would be scattered about the buildings as troops went from house to house, rooting out enemies. I wanted outposts to be unique from towers, and also be predominantly grunt fights. In this simplier version I don't have vehicles purchasable, but if outposts were made, there would be a garage where grunts could "buy" an unarmed utility vehicle (just a 2 or 4 seater, with armor less than a harasser).

Rank Salaries were also suppose to be used for individuals to gain temporary access to Outfit-only features that would be introduced later.

Lots of interesting and unique things could be done with this.

[minignu]

Hmmm a couple of (hopefully) simple ideas could be that if you are at BR 25 you could use resource points to choose where your armour coulours are applied...so that you could make your armour more red if you dislike black if you're TR or make yourself stand out with a black and teal colour scheme for VS for example (Perhaps you could even customise your avatar with new haircuts, battlescars etc. I would like to change my avatar once in a while). The same could be done for vehicle colour schemes with perhaps the ability to place some symbols or text on the vehicle.....(?)

Also although these could may be merit base instead...perhaps we could buy cert specific helmets, ambands and shoulder pads (the shoulder pad would be the merit side and would be coloured underneath the merit badges)-

White armband, helmet or shoulder pad - Medic
Grey armband, helmet or shoulder pad - Engineer
Green armband, helmet or shoulder pad - Hacker

Maybe we could also have ammuntion bandoliers for snipers, bandanas for heavy weapons dudes or maybe those funky targeters the marines in Halo had for anti vehicle guys... the possibilities are endless.

These would be permament unlike the others as i can't see anyone bothering to purchase these upgraes every time they respawn especially if they could buy all these other cool widgets....

I do see a problem though.... many people in the PS community have serious problems with new stuff added to the game which doesn't add to combat... they may disagree to the fun stuff like customisation and fireworks and things. Afterall remember the furor over the hats and sunglasses some players made?

BUT...I would LOVE this in game :)

[Hayoo]

Cool ideas, except for the permanent part, i'm afraid. Things like bandoliers would be part of the inventory upgrade thing (packs, pouches) and be available for free from equipment terminals while the power is on. If it's off then you'd have to pull it from a goods terminal like you would the ammo. It's the cost for the convenience.

Nothing from a goods terminal would be permenant, as I explained to Earlydawn above, it would only favor the high-ranks who could snap up the permenant items and then only worry about the small stuff, while the poor low-ranks would have to juggle saving for those permenant items (which would have to be pricey for being 'always on') and getting necessary items when a gen is down.

[Kusutto]

a note
u die a lot in Planetside more than u die in a MMORPG :D

something u purchase everytime u spawn it's a bit annoying.
and of course perma item should be only availble to BR25 and CR3 up.

just some thoughts

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by Kusutto

a note
u die a lot in Planetside more than u die in a MMORPG :D

something u purchase everytime u spawn it's a bit annoying.
and of course perma item should be only availble to BR25 and CR3 up.

just some thoughts

*sigh* While the armband/armor color idea is cool. I should have been clearer that they shouldn't be part of the goods terminal, specifically because of the perma item thing I mentioned. Armbands and customized looks should remain outside a salary system for the very reasons you speak of.

There is nothing in the goods terminal that a player should want or need to purchase every single time they spawn. And if there is an item in there that I or anyone else suggested, it should be removed from the goods list pronto. And that goes for anything that makes a weapon more powerful or desirable than anything else. Planetside is about versitility, not power as you rise in rank.

As for Command rank, that system deserves no toys, no perks, no special items, no freebies that have zero to do with commanding. I'm sorry but I feel very very strongly about that (for example, CR's shouldn't get a new rifle or extra inventory). Anything for command rank won't appear in the Battle Rank Salary idea when it gets published.

So in summary, arm bages and armor changes, while cool, simply don't belong in a temporary system. Best to leave that to Merits, leveling, or something else more permanent.

[minignu]

Originally Posted by Hayoo

So in summary, arm bages and armor changes, while cool, simply don't belong in a temporary system. Best to leave that to Merits, leveling, or something else more permanent.

Fair enough, makes sense i suppose :)

Would it be possible to buy enemy weapon ammo from these terminals? I know I for one don't have storage space in my locker for VS ammo or AV ammo and would love to be able to pull some out of there for a small price.

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by minignu

Fair enough, makes sense i suppose :)

Would it be possible to buy enemy weapon ammo from these terminals? I know I for one don't have storage space in my locker for VS ammo or AV ammo and would love to be able to pull some out of there for a small price.

Oooooooo. Now there's something I hadn't thought of! :) What do you guys think? Considering the enemy's weapons vanish after respawning, it doesn't seem this would be too overpowering.

[acespacer]

But the Vanu have the advantage over the other 2 empies sinc the mostly use common ammo and the VS have the Special Energy ammo. lol