Revive and Respawn window improvements

[Hayoo]

What do you think of the new Revive and Respawn interface and abilities? Is there anything else you would like to add that will help Adv Medics or fallen comrades?

I still need to make a graphic for that "see corpses" through walls thing.

Edit: "see corpses" graphic has been created and uploaded.

[bwzman]

It all looks good, but maybe instead of having such a heafty spawn penalty, maybe change it depending on how many Adv Meds Are in the area.

[Earlydawn]

The only thing I don't agree with is respawning with 50% of your armor. You should spawn fresh. Full health, Full armor, disabled implants.

[IncomingFire]

I agree with early way too often do I get revived only to get cut down the next second because I can't somewhere quickly enough to repair my armor

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by bwzman+Jul 13 2004, 08:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bwzman @ Jul 13 2004, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It all looks good, but maybe instead of having such a heafty* spawn penalty, maybe change it depending on how many Adv Meds Are in the area.[/b]

Oh, that 40 second penalty was just an example, and also to give me time to show all the different options and events that could happen while the guy was thinking about respawning. The respawn penalty would be whatever it usually is in the game, whether that's 2 seconds or 15 seconds or whatever. The timer allows you to see how long you can wait for a revive before clicking on the map and respawning instantly...because you've already waited out your penalty you see.

Originally posted by CDL EarlyDawn@
The only thing I don't agree with is respawning with 50% of your armor. You should spawn fresh. Full health, Full armor, disabled implants.

Hmm. I could change that to 100% but I worry that players might feel that's a better deal than getting revived, just like it is now. And yet, sweetening the Revive deal too much and it negates any penalties for getting killed. It's a poser.

<!--QuoteBegin-CDL-ORANGE
I agree with early way too often do I get revived only to get cut down the next second because I can't somewhere quickly enough to repair my armor [/quote]

There are a few mitigating options to help. There's the carry option, for a buddy to get you someplace safe to revive and repair. There's always talk of an Armor Patch thing, like a Medkit for armor. Thing is, death has to have some kind of penalty and time isn't enough, there has to be an accompanying danger to being brought back to life in the middle of a battlefield.

So having said that, what are some reasonable penalties you guys can think of for being Revived.

Currently my penalties are:

Revive - 75% health, max of 10% armor (meaning if you died with 0, you get 10% back, otherwise it's whatever it was when you died, which is usually a lot more), 10 stamina, and implant enables in half the time (or more) than it does now.

Medevac - 100% health, max of 30% armor, 50 stamina, and implants are 25% enabled.

Respawn - 100% health, max of 75% armor (or perhaps 100%), 100 stamina, and implants are disabled and take the full time to kick in.

[IncomingFire]

I must not have read all the way through my A.D.D. comes in at the most inopportune times

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by -CDL-ORANGE@Jul 14 2004, 11:24 PM
I must not have read all the way through my A.D.D. comes in at the most inopportune times

I know the feeling. :)

[Aled]

I got ADHD :(

By the way, that's a great idea. The med-evac is pretty cool too. How about a kind of ambulance-style deliverer that would heal units in proximity to it?? Healthmobile, anyone? :P

EDIT: There it is, didn't read it properly. Didn't see the med-evac vehicle thing.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by Aled@Jul 24 2004, 12:52 PM
I got ADHD :(

By the way, that's a great idea. The med-evac is pretty cool too. How about a kind of ambulance-style deliverer that would heal units in proximity to it?? Healthmobile, anyone? :P

EDIT: There it is, didn't read it properly. Didn't see the med-evac vehicle thing.

no prob, Aled. :) Glad you could join the emporium! If you have any ideas to share, the Wishlist is calling you. :P

;) i cant find the right place 2 post my ideas so i asume this is as good as any


i have a few ideas 4 outfit bases like beingable to place mounted guns (not turrets) more like pillboxes or a bunker with a mounted 15mil or being able 2 ad segments like ading a small underground sheilded (prevents enemysfrom entering if atached 2 a amp station)chamber that alows meds and engenieres 2 heal u and maby the ability 2 change the type of wall turret u have weather a slowfiring canon or the traditional one. the other aproch is to make every thing complettly customivable with prefab peces(with an editor like the tony halk games) and also ps in space would be cool but i think that u would spend more time looking for fights rather then actually fighting same with sea stuff i dont mean 2 bash any ones ideas but that is just my personal opinon :) u can use any ideas i used here and dont worry about crediting me

oops noticed a few errors dont hold it agenst me :D

oh this is some thing i left out perhaps we could convince them 2 ad an energy sword and have it be a weapon and mabe the ability to use ur weapon as a blunt object if u run out of ammo this would have 2 be a seperet cert oviously maby call it mele wepons u could have an evergy mace 2 :blink:

[Hayoo]

Welcome to the boards!

The best place to post ideas you wish to share is to create a topic in the Wishlist forum, but you'll need to sign up to the forums. This board is for discussing concepts that are already on the Idealab site.

The topic for this thread are the Revive and Respawn improvements.

If you create a new topic in the Wishlist I can move these concepts for you. :) Please be sure to sign up.

[DviddLeff]

I like these ad med improvements, when compared to the other advanced support certs, which have a large array of things to do, ad allows you to revive troops currently, and it needs some love.

The game needs a return to Castle Wolfenstien style respawn system, which you seem to have mirrored quite well, as well as add on a host of further improvements Hayoo, great ideas!

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Jul 30 2004, 08:48 PM
I like these ad med improvements, when compared to the other advanced support certs, which have a large array of things to do, ad* allows you to revive troops currently, and it needs some love.

The game needs a return to Castle Wolfenstien style respawn system, which you seem to have mirrored quite well, as well as add on a host of further improvements Hayoo, great ideas!

Right you are, a lot of these resemble Wolfenstien because that is what forum posters felt would work best with Planetside, and I agreed, and put it in the concept. The only 'innovation' I put into the med improvements is the Medevac ability, the rest of the concept were mostly commonsense ideas requested by the community, including yourself! :)

Due Credits - not including my own concepts, inspiration also came from the collective ideas from almost every player since Beta. I went back as far as August 2003 to cull the community requests, most notably from: Blahman, Marsman, Fort4Law, EarlyDawn (LNS), AdeptusAstartes, Nexus8, Terminator_uk, Greyflc, alrabbit, OnyxBMW, Jibzie, Dviddlef, Etheryus, Cassandra, Dawsh, Trident, and hundreds of others. Thanks to each of them for reviving the topics and continuing the discussions.)

:D

[DviddLeff]

Heh, thanks Hayoo, look forward to helping you with ideas as much as I can in the future :)

Was playing Conflict Desert Storm today (looks like a nice game, lots of good things in it) on a friends Xbox, and the medic system on that is quite good. You have to pick up your fallen squadmate and take them back to a medical area, where they get patched up. Until I played the game I doubted how effective and useful the ability to pickup the dead and pull them back from the front lines would be, but now I will be a full supporter for the idea, its just so useful to take your dead to a safer area where you can work on them.

With your medevac and medic stations idea, I think Im missing the point, I dont see why a medic or respawning person would bother going to the med station when they die, rather than simply going straight to the AMS?

Can the med stations be set up by a ad med while hes on foot, like one of your deployable emplacements, in which case ignore my above paragraph :D ?

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Jul 31 2004, 09:39 PM
With your medevac and medic stations idea, I think Im missing the point, I dont see why a medic or respawning person would bother going to the med station when they die, rather than simply going straight to the AMS?

Can the med stations be set up by a ad med while hes on foot, like one of your deployable emplacements, in which case ignore my above paragraph* :D ?

The Med changes coincide with adding territories to continents and changes to how AMSs allow players to get equipment. These changes were made to create a virtual supply line.

An AMS in a friendly, supply-linked zone, has unrestricted access to all equipment like now. This includes Rexo, Heavy Assault, Special Assault, AV, their corresponding ammo, MAX ammo, and vehicle ammo.

If the AMS is not in a supply-linked zone, an NTU capacitor slowly drains to 0% Once it reaches that point, the AMS can only supply up to Agile, Medium Assault, corresponding ammo types, and support equipment. No HA, Rexo, SA, AV, or vehicle ammo, etc. The AMS capacitor, however, can be recharged by an engineer with powercells, or deploying an ANT near it, as illustrated in this thread.

So, Medevac becomes useful for those players who do not wish to risk loosing their heavy equipment by spawning at an AMS at the enemy's back door, especially if they know it's low on NTUs (because it's in enemy territory) and no one is recharging it.

A Medevac station is also a support station with equipment terminals for replenishing ammo but not weapons. Plus its got a cloaking field, so a Combat Engineer or Field Engineer can conceal one close to a base.

Being medevaced (or 'revived') to a Med Station also gives the player 50 stamina right off the bat. So an downed Rexo can be medevaced by an Advanced Medic, pop up at a Med Station, restock his ammo, and run back into the fray. His implants will also engage sooner than had he Respawned.



As for adv medics creating med stations. I wish they could, but construction is a little out of their field, so I've given that ability to the above mentioned Combat Engineers and Field Engineers.

Now what an Adv Medic can get, is a Medevac ground vehicle, which provides the same capabilities of the medical applicator (heal, revive, or medevac teleport) except that it's armored, more mobile, can carry up to 3 or 4 passengers, and it's a free vehicle with the Adv Medical cert.

A Medic Vehicle is in the courtyard. When at a full stop, this vehicle also emits a regenerative field. It also automatically revives or medevacs (depending on the player's toggle) any fallen soldiers within it's revive radius. Typically the medics driving the vehicle can cruise around the courtyard, momentarly stopping next to a dead player and revive them inside the vehicle (if there's room) or revive and teleport them to the nearest Med Station.

Taking all three choices together (Revive, Medevac, and Respawn) it gives players more options to choose the way they return into the world.

[DviddLeff]

Ah I see, thanks for explaining it.

I do however feel that Ad meds should be able to create the med evac stations though, as its medical. Could change the name slightly to make up for the fact that they can create the med evac stations.

You could even brake the ad med cert into two, creating a Field Medic (as ad med is but with the med evac vehicle) and a Medical Technician, who can set up the Med evac stations as well as res people.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff@Sep 13 2004, 01:29 PM
Ah I see, thanks for explaining it.

I do however feel that Ad meds should be able to create the med evac stations though, as its medical. Could change the name slightly to make up for the fact that they can create the med evac stations.

You could even brake the ad med cert into two, creating a Field Medic (as ad med is but with the med evac vehicle) and a Medical Technician, who can set up the Med evac stations as well as res people.

I see what you're saying. It'll take some thought though to make it an air-tight rational for Medics. You see, to create the Med Evac Stations or any other deployable emplacement like that, one needs the CE construction vehicle. Medical Technicians or whatever would need an engineering vehicle to make it and that seems a little odd, no?

Perhaps the Station could be an unarmored version, one that is towed to a location and deployed like a fragile tent, thus not requiring heavy machinery to create. Or perhaps it could be created by the Med Evac Vehicle? Except that the Med Evac vehicle is a feature of the Adv Medic. Now my head hurts. :) Field Medic sounds more like the cert to make the Med Station though. I'd keep Adv Medic for the other guy. Maybe both should get access to the vehicle, but only the one can make the Med Stations from it.

I'll have to think about this one.

[Earlydawn]

You should really have all implants enabled when you're revived, and 50% when you're evac-ed.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Sep 19 2004, 05:31 PM
You should really have all implants enabled when you're revived, and 50% when you're evac-ed.

How about %80 enabled revived, %50 enabled on evac? :D

[Earlydawn]

A little more reasonable, but in my experience you're usually killed within 15 seconds of being revived. Enabled implants might go a short distance towards helping this issue.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Sep 19 2004, 06:40 PM
A little more reasonable, but in my experience you're usually killed within 15 seconds of being revived. Enabled implants might go a short distance towards helping this issue.

Ah, but remember that as I have it there, reviving only gives you 10 stamina anyway so you have to wait regardless.

It would seem a little strange to be in great health, implanets enabled and activated right from being revived, no? Shouldn't there be some kind of penalty for being killed?

Then again, that's why I created the Med-evac function, to get the person out of harms way, but able to get quicker into the fight than a hard respawn. Regardless, being revived on the front line is extremely dangerous. Team members should be covering the medic or advancing beyond the corpses so they can be revived, shouldn't they?

[Earlydawn]

Yeah, and that's all fine and well on paper, but you and I both know as veteran players that it rarely works out like that. The ability to drag casualties may change things a little, but not enough to convince me.

And I thought that the new revive only rezzed you with 10 stamina *if* you had zero. Otherwise you'd just come back with what you had. Did I misunderstand? If it brought you back with ten, then they would logically enter that lockdown mode when you're exausted. But if you revived with over 20, I still think they should be online.

Look at it this way: The body is still somewhat alive for months post-mortum. I would imagine you have active "thoughts" for some time after you die, although in a fragmented state. Is it so unreasonable to assume that nanomechanical implants would stay online only a few minutes after death?

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Sep 19 2004, 07:01 PM
Yeah, and that's all fine and well on paper, but you and I both know as veteran players that it rarely works out like that. The ability to drag casualties may change things a little, but not enough to convince me.

And I thought that the new revive only rezzed you with 10 stamina *if* you had zero. Otherwise you'd just come back with what you had. Did I misunderstand? If it brought you back with ten, then they would logically enter that lockdown mode when you're exausted. But if you revived with over 20, I still think they should be online.

Look at it this way: The body is still somewhat alive for months post-mortum. I would imagine you have active "thoughts" for some time after you die, although in a fragmented state. Is it so unreasonable to assume that nanomechanical implants would stay online only a few minutes after death?

If you revive with what stamina you had left, say 25, then absolutely I would say a player can activate an enabled implant. The 10 stamina is as you said, if they died with zero, with lockdown initiated.

Even if we allowed enabled implants, would that really help people survive the situations they die in again after reviving? Perhaps surge can get you a few steps further. Maybe personal shield can hold off the shots. But even with that, players are going to eventually demand full health, full stamina, full implants like on respawn. I'm wary of opening that door because we need people to feel the sting of death, they need to feel the danger and vulnerability on some level, otherwise life will be even cheaper than it is now. :(

[Earlydawn]

Well, autobumping a player up to 10 stamina if they have zero sounds reasonable. Otherwise they revive with whatever they died with.

I really don't think there's much you can do to make life cheaper then it is now.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Sep 19 2004, 07:23 PM
Well, autobumping a player up to 10 stamina if they have zero sounds reasonable. Otherwise they revive with whatever they died with.

I really don't think there's much you can do to make life cheaper then it is now.

Sure there is. :) We could have people spawn 2 seconds after they hit the button, and they respawn in that very spot with fully regenerated stamina, health, implants, armor, ammo, and weapons.

:lol:

[Earlydawn]

Not a bad idea...


















:P

[DviddLeff]

Originally posted by Hayoo@Sep 13 2004, 04:01 PM
Perhaps the Station could be an unarmored version, one that is towed to a location and deployed like a fragile tent, thus not requiring heavy machinery to create.

In referance to this post:

What Im thinking is that the Field Medic find a suitable location on foot, sets up his tent (it could possibly be equipped in a holster slot, taking up the same room as an AV weapon) and can then start doing what he does with it.

If a friendly Engineer then comes along (with whichever tool you think best), he can upgrade the tents armour and make it a bit more defendable. Possibly the tent could have a light cloaking field, but this could be a bit much.

The problem I see is that if you have to tow the tent into position, your going to get spotted and your going to have every enemy gun pointed your way at the fragile tent.

[Earlydawn]

I can agree to that. Maybe only make the weapon emplacements require the CE vehicle to set up? The support emplacements could use a huge, but managable chunk of inventory space. The covers are obviously made with the entrenching tool.

[myrtar]

FIGURE 3: [...] Notice that the Respawn Window shows his respawn point as "AMS, Oshur."

suggestion: respawn point include general location

FIGURE 3: [...] Notice that the Respawn Window shows his respawn point as "AMS, E8, Oshur."

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by martyr@Sep 24 2004, 09:42 PM

suggestion: respawn point include general location

Good idea, martyr. I'll make the necessary edits when I get back. I'd made those graphics before grids went in. :P

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by DviddLeff+Sep 24 2004, 12:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DviddLeff @ Sep 24 2004, 12:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hayoo@Sep 13 2004, 04:01 PM
Perhaps the Station could be an unarmored version, one that is towed to a location and deployed like a fragile tent, thus not requiring heavy machinery to create.

In referance to this post:

What Im thinking is that the Field Medic find a suitable location on foot, sets up his tent (it could possibly be equipped in a holster slot, taking up the same room as an AV weapon) and can then start doing what he does with it.

If a friendly Engineer then comes along (with whichever tool you think best), he can upgrade the tents armour and make it a bit more defendable. Possibly the tent could have a light cloaking field, but this could be a bit much.

The problem I see is that if you have to tow the tent into position, your going to get spotted and your going to have every enemy gun pointed your way at the fragile tent. [/b][/quote]
The problem is that the med station has terminals, stuctural mass, and semi-heavy hardware. I think it would be a bit overkill to permit a single grunt to create the whole thing by himself: protective mounds of dirt (to justify some resistance to explosions), the station shell/coverings, health regenerator node, and the supply terminals (equipment terminals that provide only ammo, medical supplies, and repair supplies). I just don't see how anything less than a towable or vehicle can create such a thing.

Oh, and the med station emplacement already has a cloaking field once created.

I understand the need for security in placing such a crucial emplacement, but there has to be other options besides letting a single grunt create it all. I feel it should be a simple one-shot select and create deal for maximum use by players.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Hayoo+Sep 25 2004, 03:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hayoo @ Sep 25 2004, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

In referance to this post:

What Im thinking is that the Field Medic find a suitable location on foot, sets up his tent (it could possibly be equipped in a holster slot, taking up the same room as an AV weapon) and can then start doing what he does with it.

If a friendly Engineer then comes along (with whichever tool you think best), he can upgrade the tents armour and make it a bit more defendable. Possibly the tent could have a light cloaking field, but this could be a bit much.

The problem I see is that if you have to tow the tent into position, your going to get spotted and your going to have every enemy gun pointed your way at the fragile tent.

The problem is that the med station has terminals, stuctural mass, and semi-heavy hardware. I think it would be a bit overkill to permit a single grunt to create the whole thing by himself: protective mounds of dirt (to justify some resistance to explosions), the station shell/coverings, health regenerator node, and the supply terminals (equipment terminals that provide only ammo, medical supplies, and repair supplies). I just don't see how anything less than a towable or vehicle can create such a thing.

Oh, and the med station emplacement already has a cloaking field once created.

I understand the need for security in placing such a crucial emplacement, but there has to be other options besides letting a single grunt create it all. I feel it should be a simple one-shot select and create deal for maximum use by players. [/b][/quote]
You can justify it somehow. The bottom line is that Medical Posts that are set up anywhere close to a base are gonna get lit up during the construction process.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Sep 25 2004, 04:43 AM
You can justify it somehow. The bottom line is that Medical Posts that are set up anywhere close to a base are gonna get lit up during the construction process.

We're going to have to get really creative with the med station creation, I think. I'm having a real hard time imagining a single guy carrying a MASH unit around.

Either we introduce measures that make its creation more secure

Or we ease restrictions so more can be created by more people.


Perhaps have two types of med stations? Aside from the advanced armored one that needs a vehicle, perhaps a more fragile one that's really just a Tent attached to medevac reviving hardware and a smaller cloak generator? Naturally it would have to take up a heck of a lot of inventory room to justify, but I can see a single guy can carry a tent that has two compact pieces of equipment.

Could even allow both a Field Medic and Adv Medic to create one. That would not only increase odds of having one on the field, but also increase odds of one being undiscovered. By contrast, the more advanced version (med station emplacement) will have it's cloak field but also have the armor (dug-in cover) of an emplacement so it can be defended if discovered.

Thoughts?

[Earlydawn]

Okay, so have the basic one buildable by field medics as a stealth medivac and staging area, and then a larger one buildable by the CE vehicle by combat engineers that has more advanced facilities like an advanced med terminal to repair armor, and a implant terminal.

[Hayoo]

That sounds alright except for having the adv med terminal and implant terminal. The thing isn't big enough to accomodate all that. And the emplacement has a regenerative field so anyone standing within the bubble will be healed. Perhaps if the emplacement is part of the supply line we can say it repairs armor also.

Name: Medical Tent

• Required Cert: Field Medic
• Required Tool: Entrenching Tool (Terrain Reformatting Tool, TRET)
• Description: Made from the 180 (larger) cover, this emplacement has camo netting on four poles extending from the berm to a few meters out, beneath which are two pieces of equipment: a medical generator (for medevac and regen) and small cloaking field generator. Emplacement does not have a storage box.
• Operation: Medevaced troops will spawn within the emplacement's cloaking field, which also doubles as a health regen field.

Name: Medical Station

• Required Cert: Field Medic (in vehicle), Combat Engineer, or Field Engineer (perhaps)
• Required Tool: Medical Vehicle or Combat Engineering Vehicle
• Description: 360 degree berm with shell constructed inside. This emplacement has 3 pieces of equipment inside; Cloaking field generator, respawn and health generator, and a Basic Equipment Terminal that provides only standard ammo, med items, and repair items. Emplacement has a storage box that can be set to Locked, Group, or Empire.
• Operation: Medevaced troops will spawn within the emplacement's cloaking field, which also doubles as a health regen field. Troops can also get basic equipment from the terminal inside.

My main worry is that troops (or Snipers specifically) would create the Med Tent as a "blind" because of it's cloaking field, but since only Field Medics at 3 certs can create the tents, and must sacrifice inventory space for the emplacement tools, I think it balances itself out. ...So long as troops can't target anyone outside the field. :(