(Starside) Planetside Space battles concept

[Marinealver]

I think this is an apropiate place to put this. Of course this concept is such a radical idea that it is probibly more like a compleetly difrent game. So I'll just call this Starside (name pending due to copyright and other stuff) Planetside 2 concept. I know this is a long shot but hey its a wishlist. I can wish right?



Starside, Planetside 2
Chapter 1 basic concept.

Units in game.


Ground Forces
This category is the base unit. Just because it is the lowest doesn’t mean that it will be the least important as all other units must start with this core element.

Infantry
Infantry the basic infantry man will obviously be the hart and soul of all ships. There the ones who command, pilot repair, man guns and stations and bring life into the ship. Without them you wouldn’t have anything but an empty hulk.

MAX
The void of space is a harsh and unforgiving place. To go out into space you must bring your own atmosphere, heating and cooling, enclosed life support system. The MAX is the only armor type that is capable of extravehicular activity.

Suffered server damage on the port side of the ship that knocked out several of your turrets? Anti-air and Anti-vehicular MAX can act as temporary guns while Anti-Personnel MAX forms a boarding action. TR Spike can keep it anchored to the hull so a glancing hit won’t send him off to the void. VS jump jets can extend the boarding range of the MAX. NC shields will be obviously useful in Space combat while on the outside of the hull of the ship.

Ground Vehicles
To be precise these will only take part of space action in the form of planetary invasions. Of course the attackers will be at a disadvantage because they will have to shuttle their vehicles down till they can capture an appropriate facility. They will be more of a logistical challenge to support landing forces than actually participate in space combat.

However some ground vehicles may find a nice asteroid or two it can scurry in and around while taking pot shots. Space Stations/docks corridors are large enough to drive tanks and other vehicles through them. So there might be some interesting close quarters battles in space that may include some vehicles. Even with these possibilities ground vehicles will not be very effective in space combat.


Ground Defenses (Anti-Orbital weapons)
So the enemy is now in orbit blasting you with bolts from the blue. All you can do is sit there helpless. Of course not! They are shooting at you. Shoot back at them. Here are some defenses at your disposal.

Towers (Gun Towers, Base Towers.)
The towers seem like a better focal point for orbital defenses instead of facilities. For one they are scattered all over the cotenant there is two to four towers for every facility. Also they are a smaller target and won’t attract much fire from orbital bombardments unlike facilities will be the obvious targets for orbital strikes. Two put it simple there will be 2 types of towers (vice 3 from original planetside).

The first type of tower is the gun tower. This will be more like a cross between the original gun towers and watch tower. As it will have 5 levels like the watch tower. On the levels would be the standard phalanx wall turrets. However the entire tower is also an anti-orbital weapon platform that can track and shoot at large orbital targets such as ships.

The base tower is the standard air tower with the vehicle station that is displayed in idealab for NTU refits. It serves as a nice staging point for ground based air/space craft.

BFRs (Scout/flight, Assault/amphibious, Battle/anti-orbital, War/gunner)
For now there are 2 different types of BFRs, Gunner and Flight variants. Hopefully there will be some more types with the new fronts that the next planetside will have to offer.

The Scout Frame is the standard single seat flight variant. It is the lightest and least armored of all BFRs.

The Assault Frame is the standard gunner variant. However it should have amphibious capabilities.

The Battle (Defender) Frame is a Gunner variant with the gunner weapons being a Anti-Air/Anti-Orbital weapons platform. That is great for targeting ships around orbit or in the atmosphere. This will be a mobile Anti-orbital platform that can relocate itself to fill a gap when gun towers get knocked out. However with the exception of the flying scout frame, will find its specialized weapons out gunned by the other variants.

The War Frame is a massive 3 seat (Pilot, Left Gunner Right Gunner) walking death machine. (TR can have a 4th seat on top.) This is the biggest out of all BFR variants. In combat it will have a significant advantage over other BFR types. This will come at a price as it will lack the mobility of the scout and assault frames which can fly or swim to places inaccessible to the War-frame. Another disadvantage is lacking the anti-orbital weapons of the Defender type frame. When defending from invasions its weapon systems can only engage smaller auxiliary ships that enter the atmosphere, leaving the larger capital ships in orbit free to rain down their destruction. However when it comes to being king of the land this big fellow will win hands down.

Ballistic hydro ship (Water type concept)
For now oceans and hydro vehicles haven’t come into play. This is a much unfinished and undeveloped concept. However some hydro craft with intercontinental ballistic weapons may be able to upgrade/switch to Anti-Orbital weapons instead and act as a mobile defense platform.


Probes
These will be the deployable element to all space. They will come in all shapes and varieties. They will have many uses from interstellar navigation for jumps to defenses and mines, to surface reconnaissance and orbital strikes. All of them will have a cloaking device which makes them more of a challenge.


Air/Space Craft
All aircraft will be able to cross between planet atmosphere and space however they are not capable of intersystem travel on their own. However they make great for inner system patrols and orbital defenses or assaults.

Fighters (Mosquito)
Can be created and launched from Destroyers, Battle Cruisers, and Carriers.

Bombers (Reaver, Liberator)
Can be created and launched from Battle Cruisers and Carriers.

Shuttles (Galaxy and Loadstar)
Can only be created on Carriers. However may be carried aboard and launched from other capital ships.

[Marinealver]

Auxiliary Ships
These ships fill a gap between Air/Space Craft and Capital ships. Although they might not be able to slug it out with the bigger vessels. These ships can enter the atmosphere of a planet and land. This is the only way the can land troops and vehicles on a planet as they have only emergency HART lifeboats instead of the shuttles that larger capital ships have. However in the atmosphere their mobility is drastically hindered as most of the energy goes into keeping them airborne. So Air/Space Craft will have an advantage in maneuverability in this area. Unlike air/Space Craft these ships come with jump engines and are capable of intersystem travel.

Patrol Ship
The patrol ship is smallest out of all the interstellar vehicles. Even though it is small it is the only Auxilary ship with torpedoes. The standard PT tactic is to out maneuver ships and launch torpedoes in a series of hit and run attacks. In the atmosphere due to weapons and mobility restrictions, its use will be fairly limited. However being able to land just about anywhere and go to any system it will make an effective “battle taxi” just the thing for a squad if they are looking for a lift to another system.

Drop Ship
This is the standard transport craft. It is lightly armed only with defensive turrets. However its strength comes in its ability to carry 4 BFR and land them on planet. Combined with ground vehicle terminal this can be a quick ground invasion base for planetary assaults.

Corvette
This is more of a specialist ship. It an enhanced sensor platform with darklight amplifiers and advanced interlink facility to intercept enemy broadcasts, it can prove to be a very effective ship however not a vital one. It is best used as a “mine sweeper” hunting down and eliminating enemy probes. In theory it could act as a “sub-hunter” searching for enemy scout ships. However the vessel will need to exercise caution and possibly require assistance from more heavily armed vessels as a lightly armed corvette can easily find itself outgunned by a torpedo laden scout ship.

Frigate
The frigate is the largest and most heavily armed of all the auxiliary ships. This gunboat could almost match a destroyer in terms of firepower if it were not for the lack of torpedoes and space craft. Yet where the destroyer fails in entering the atmosphere the Frigate excels at. Acting as a massive gun laden airship it can lay waste to ground forces below or hiding in the atmosphere it can harass larger ships acting as a mobile Anti-Orbital platform. There is a trade off on entering the atmosphere though besides slower movement and mobility. Once inside the atmosphere it has exposed itself to anti-aircraft and BFR weaponry. However there is few weapons that can take down this flying battle fortress.


Capital Ships
Capital ships are the hart of all fleet operations. These vessels resemble power and supremacy. A single enemy vessel from this category entering the system is cause for much concern. These ships can only operate in space. However they can land troops via shuttles and HART stations.

Scout Ship
This ship is the smallest and lightly armed of all the ships. However being the only class of ship with cloaking capability opens a whole list of possibilities; from spying with its advance interlink station, to stalking enemy ships, to deploying mines and orbital strike probes. Its primary purpose though is to establish a jump route for other ships in and out of system. Having only a single HART and shuttle pad, it can only land small raiding parties. Other than that it has no other space craft beside its probes. Also aside from its torpedoes, its armament is fairly light. So stealth is its primary weapon. However a small crew can enjoy taking this craft out and wrecking havoc.

Destroyer
Destroyers are the most common type of capital ships. This is the workhorse of the fleet. It can hunt for scout ships and probes with its darklight amplifiers. It can drop troops with HART facilities. Light Aircraft and Vehicles can be made aboard and shuttled down to the surface. Also its armament is second only to the Battle Cruiser. There is no combat task this vessel is more than capable of handling.

Battle Cruiser
Battle Cruisers are the heaviest armed of all the Starships. They are the only starship carrying Heavy turrets thus more than twice the firepower of Destroyers. Besides firepower Battle Cruisers can carry a legion to any battle field with HART shuttles. Its vehicle terminals are able to make Heavy Vehicles and Aircraft like a Technology center. However its most impressive feature is its 6 special BFR HART shuttles. That’s right it can carry 6 BFR and HART drop them into battle. It does have some drawbacks. One is that it is one of the least common ships. Only the carrier appears less often. Also it doesn’t have the darklight facilities that Destroyers have. Needless to say it will need a few to escort them from prowling scout ships.

Carrier
Carriers are the largest and rarest of starships. It is only armed with defensive turrets. Its firepower comes from it ability to make every single type of Space Craft available. It has a series of advance HART shuttle (runabout) that carries vehicles and personnel to and from any ship/sanctuary shuttle-bay in the same system allowing for free and fluid movement among the fleets. Carriers also act as a mobile sanctuary allowing anyone in the same system to recall to it. Essentially this makes it an ideal flagship for any fleet.




Ok well this is the rough concept. Future posts will describe some esentials such as weapons, empire charastice, navagation and interstellar travel, graphic engine concept and other shenanigans Let me know what you think about this.

comming next chapter 2 Empires and weapons systems.

[Hayoo]

Love reading the space idea threads. I'll comment after I've had a chance to read through the whole thing. :)

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by Hayoo

Love reading the space idea threads. I'll comment after I've had a chance to read through the whole thing. :)

Take your time. I have another one comming after I finish a few MS (My Sorry) Paint Images for concepts on class and empire specific weapons.

On question, call me a noob to these forums, but does this message board suport links to images useing standard text markup tags?

[acespacer]

i think its a little to much for the game as an mmo to keep good/decent fps for most players and such to have inter action between ground/air and space.
one thing is that you would have to raise the flight celing and that would give libs and gald drops more of an advantage to AA weapons. although a though is to make the space craft with energy weapons/AT and have then very week to all weapons from ground Vech.'s, Maxes, and Troops. lol sorty like less armor for those weapons then the Wasp but have Space weapons and are a big diff or space weapons to space craft and make Anit Orbit weapons sorta like the Fail but mor concentrated energy and quicker and ofcorse like little damage to and ground units or give the Fail sorta of Firing Arc restriction.

also i would thing space stuff is all good but i think the Battle should be more foiced on the planet battles whitch the title "Planetside" sugest.
i dount mean to offend you but it would make the game seam more like a game called "Universal Combat" whitch u fight on foot or in a Vech. on Lan,Sea,Air, and Space accept that that game dident have the best grafix and Physics.
*breaths* i think i spilled some guts there..

EDIT: im still looking over al your info.. so i might chage my mind on some things.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by acespacer

i think its a little to much for the game as an mmo to keep good/decent fps for most players and such to have inter action between ground/air and space.
one thing is that you would have to raise the flight celing and that would give libs and gald drops more of an advantage to AA weapons. although a though is to make the space craft with energy weapons/AT and have then very week to all weapons from ground Vech.'s, Maxes, and Troops. lol sorty like less armor for those weapons then the Wasp but have Space weapons and are a big diff or space weapons to space craft and make Anit Orbit weapons sorta like the Fail but mor concentrated energy and quicker and ofcorse like little damage to and ground units or give the Fail sorta of Firing Arc restriction.

also i would thing space stuff is all good but i think the Battle should be more foiced on the planet battles whitch the title "Planetside" sugest.
i dount mean to offend you but it would make the game seam more like a game called "Universal Combat" whitch u fight on foot or in a Vech. on Lan,Sea,Air, and Space accept that that game dident have the best grafix and Physics.
*breaths* i think i spilled some guts there..

EDIT: im still looking over al your info.. so i might chage my mind on some things.

Well not necessarily, If figured once Air Craft had reach a certian elevation it gives them the option to enter orbit. So there will be a gap between Planetside and Starside worlds that only certian thing can cross. Anti-Orbital, and Orbital Bombardment Weapons, Space/Air Craft, and Auxilary starships. Space/Air Craft can only engage targets at where they at.

For example, a Lib in space can only attack ships in orbit as their bombs would burn up and explode harmlessly in the atmosphere. Wasps that are "Planetside" can only attack other airborne tagets. If they want to attack a Galaxy they have to enter orbit. Galaxies would have to go planetside in order to drop troops, while HARTs can drop them from orbit, but now that this theater is open, The Shuttle can be shot down, so it will be a good idea not to stick around as drop-pods are less exposed then the shuttle itself.

However with this new ability to bridge this gap Aircraft certification cost should be increased. I am thinking that the cheapest aircraft Misquito should cost 4-5 cert pts, while the most expensive ground vehicle (not including BFRs) tanks cost only 3-4.

As for the Flail, I was thinking of keeping it a Long Range surface to surface weapon. For mobile anti-orbital role I was considering a BFR variant. However the most common Anti-Orbital weapon will be Towers. Vehicles are mainly heavy ground assault that will help in defending or invadeing a planet (or moon). They are quick and easily obtainible. BFRs will be harder, to get. However they will be worth it when Small ships start to enter the atmosphere.
Eaither way you are still going to need that lone Exosuited hacker to walk down to the Control Center and hack the place. So who is to say that the infantry man or the tank that carried him there is the least imporant thing in the game. It could be the one thing that captures a continant.

However I compleetly agree that Planetside should remain a First Person Shooter and Ground combat should be primary focus. So no offense was taken. After all where do you get the resources to fuel those big starships. Even in the Starship world there are other things besides ships to board. Space Stations and Asteroids can be boarded and have skirmishes aboard. I am just focusing on the Space Combat aspect for now because that is the most abstract element that isn't a part of Planetside. It is something compleetly new. And yes that would include some graphical challenges. I explain some "theories" to adress these in later threads.

[acespacer]

i agree and disagree with some of the thing u have said. the shooting down Drop pods in space is a no. since if there are Hackers, laggers, ro some good players or campers they will be getting cheep kill and would make the game less fun for every one or atleas that get killed. i like the the option of changing like maps to space but the would have need diff Physics and set up for space type move ment and other things. but like the aproching 400 and that u have to stay below 400 and chage it to also having eather "you have Space light cability - Would you like to enter Orbit?" Or "You do not have Space flight cability - (something else here)" and provide a sorta of animation like the Hert lifting off but from where ur at. but not sure if u should be unable to be killed in transit or not
Also have most or all ships can go in to space BUT have onlt certin one be able to return shck as Bombers and Gal. Mmossy,Wasp and mybe the Rever to are unable to return to the planet surface and if u do or rather try u will die on re entry. id be nice to see that ove rhead wit ha diff explsion for planes reentering earth.im think to give the fail another name, firing wepon thing and a diff shape and group it with the Gail BUT make it man made sorta of thing but in the General Pool of Tech and put something like " The scients from the home planet sent plans for a replicat the Fail (i guees this 2"and as a Anti-Orbit Weapon") yyelled some seccuss but the weapon/firing arc has changed due ot lack of adiqide technology. or something like that.
and for uping the Air certs whell id say no because there normaly enought AA is a fight with say about 10-15+ per side and some ppl use the skeeters sor quick trans port fomr Point A to B also u would have to up the Battle Rank and COmmand rank. prob say BR30 or so and CR 6 or 7. and have like one map with same planet sor of set up bot it ove a section onf planet in orbit and there are 3 sation with in Seeing distance on clear waether type of setting from eachother and have the are like that although that might not work SINCE ther decit to Put DIff contents on the own planets...but if ur gonne up the point it cost for stuff then u had better be ready to give more points orand/or rank to make up for that high cose and u cant make BFT with the only Antiorbit weapons SINCE not ever one can Get one and those BFR die easy some times. or the fail varient for NAnti-orbit would be good and taking mybe watch tower and adding a big town on top that u can enter by selied evelatot and it take u to the "Space" area/map and u have a turret u can control/and mini tower in space u can wal aroundf and llook out in to space.also another mean of trans port for those who miss the Hert there can bee an Big Eavator in the middle of Sanc that gose up and u can take mybe Sonce Vech up with u to move in to like Dropships like in "Aliens" and have it a Drop pod for Veck and limit it ot Hrassor, buggis,Skygard,atv not sure about AMS's or ANT's and have a long distance other then out side the soi of a base/tower.
Notes or what ever u wanna post aobut what i said.
- just trying to help and kick the idea bucket around droping in my 2cents.
EDIT:sorry for my lack of editor skils and for not sepering out info and parts to paragrafs and correct sentance.

[Marinealver]

Shooting down the Drop Pods NO HART Shuttles that was one thing Idea I was toying around with. Since there will more likely be more than 1 HART shuttle in orbit. (About 2 or more per capital ship). I was also thinking of a bail out option if the shuttle starts to take too much fire.

But you might be right there is also the HART lifeboats (for when an abandon ship has been called.) Well those are just some ideas to consider. I probibly should stick to just the space aspect of it. If I get too much into the origional planetside stuff I might tweak things too much.

As for the spelling if you look closely to my replies I am certian you will find some errors on my part so no worries ; )

[acespacer]

confued atm. will edit/repost again....

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by acespacer

confued atm. will edit/repost again....

I hate it when I do that.

Well I was trying to toy with the idea of automated HART shulltes launching from captial ships raceing to the planet. Once in orbit the passengers can drop into the underlying contenant.

Now what I was toying is weither those shuttles can be shot down by Spacecraft as they are too small to be targeted by AO weapons. However once the drop pods are released then the drop pods were sfe from being targeted by any weapons.

Once again this along with the rest of the whole space battles is an abstract idea. There is barley any chance of this comming to being. But thats why it is in the wishlist forum.

[acespacer]

whell since planetside is no longer 1 planet with the heart/sations in orbit around it. u can have like one map/content size space with the sations in orbit around something and shoot the pods in the a transporter gate/hole then have a similat one or a gate in orbit around the content/planet's that would be able to cove the fact of the contents that were sent to its own planet.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by acespacer

whell since planetside is no longer 1 planet with the heart/sations in orbit around it. u can have like one map/content size space with the sations in orbit around something and shoot the pods in the a transporter gate/hole then have a similat one or a gate in orbit around the content/planet's that would be able to cove the fact of the contents that were sent to its own planet.

But these planets will be more than 1 contenant. I am actually hopeing for a larger scale continents. However ther are 2 distinct zones within a system. The Starside zone in which all the stations asteroids and ships fight in and the Planetside zone in which all planets, moons, and planetoids are contested in battle.

For Planetside Anti Orbital Defence I was considering for a more of an Anti-Ship roll. Small Craft such as Galaxies and HART shuttles would move too fast and are too small to be targeted. However with the exception of the HART shuttle the small craft would need to enter the planet in order to attack the occupying forces. In which they would expose them selves to Atni-Aircraft weapons.

So the best way to engage a HART shuttle in orbit is with a Wasp, but HART shuttles are not slow and fragile so trying to shoot one down before ll pods are launched would be difficult still giving plenty of time for the rest of the forces a chance to fight on solid ground.

I hope I clarified this better this time. If there are still any questions feel free to ask.

[DviddLeff]

Necrobump!

I have outlined my own ideas for a completely separate space combat mmo based on twitch control but never shared them (in all honesty I have outlined my pesonal ideas for MMOs for most themes), however I see this idea as stemming from PS and extending up into space from the ground.

Key features I see are:

1. Must enhance the core game on the surface.
2. Must utilise the existing systems.

Ill now detail my thoughts on this

Orbital strike adapted so there must be a ship in orbit above the continent/planet with a large enough weapon to penetrate the atmosphere, and then a player in the ship must direct the weapon and fire it at the beacon from the commanders CUD or players laser pointer (adding in a human error and delay to the process). Players can only fire on a beacon; space commanders cant just bombard the surface.

HART access requires space forces to either capture an orbital station (remember the rumours) or move a large enough ship into orbit with drop pods (read starship troopers!).

Space Elevator bases added to the continents to allow fast access up into space.

Orbital defence cannon towers added to be fought over.

Small capital ships able to enter the atmosphere and act as mobile bases (think BF2142 titans).

Galaxies and Lodestars able to ferry infantry and vehicles between space and the surface.

Space fighters using the mosquito, reaver and liberator chassis as a base.

For a good idea of how space combat can work as infantry in space suits check out Shattered Horizon; lots of cool features.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Necrobump!
Key features I see are:

1. Must enhance the core game on the surface.
2. Must utilise the existing systems.

Ill now detail my thoughts on this

Orbital strike adapted so there must be a ship in orbit above the continent/planet with a large enough weapon to penetrate the atmosphere, and then a player in the ship must direct the weapon and fire it at the beacon from the commanders CUD or players laser pointer (adding in a human error and delay to the process). Players can only fire on a beacon; space commanders cant just bombard the surface.

HART access requires space forces to either capture an orbital station (remember the rumours) or move a large enough ship into orbit with drop pods (read starship troopers!).

Space Elevator bases added to the continents to allow fast access up into space.

Orbital defence cannon towers added to be fought over.

Small capital ships able to enter the atmosphere and act as mobile bases (think BF2142 titans).

Galaxies and Lodestars able to ferry infantry and vehicles between space and the surface.

Space fighters using the mosquito, reaver and liberator chassis as a base.

For a good idea of how space combat can work as infantry in space suits check out Shattered Horizon; lots of cool features.

Agree with 1 and 2. For space combat it will be a first person view untill they get to a station such as the Helm or Scanner. Also thinking ships act more like moving bases which can be aqqured and owned by outfits, outfit leaders and apointed officers can use outfit points for base upgrades or for ships. for the other comments.

Scoutships and corvets (or upgraded launch centers can deploy planetary support probes which will act as reviel friends/enemies and orbital strike in case there isn't a ship in orbit.

HART shuttles can act as the go between planetary bases/sancs and capital starships. Also Capital Starships have HART shuttles to use as drop pods on a planet for assault. The closer the ship is to the planet the more accurate it is. Less likely to land somewhere else.

Basicly Gun towers will be upgraded with orbital defence cannons and air towers will act as a vehicle refuel repair rearm stop with airpads and ground rearm station. Watch towers will probibly be more like warpgate controls so an empire can power on or off or even lock a warpgate to only it's empire.

Small Starships called Auxilary ships can enter atmospher or even land (though this exposes them to ground assault and capture) Only the Frigate will act as a gunship while the dropship acts as a vehicle base (Tier 1 vehicles only) Patrol Ships and Corvettes are not that powerful in the atmosphere as they have more anti ship weapons but can still serve as a mobile command platform or quick base.

Galaxies and Loadys should act as landing craft for vehicles, dropships for BFRs, and Battle Cruisers will have a special pod for dropping BFRs.

Mossie, reaver and all aircav/aircraft will act as starfighters. Instead of bailing there should be an escape pod that detaches and will decon you back to a starship assuming the enemy dosn't stop to gun you down before you reconstruct to saftey.

MAXs will act as the space or EVA(Extra Vehicular Activity) suits. Also good incase of say a section of the ship looses its atmosphere.