Thoughts on a new MMORPG

[Hayoo]

What would you guys think of a Nasa/Space Program MMO?

• Completing solo missions as an Astronaut with a small NPC crew (deliver personel, release/repair hardware)
• Team with 8-10 other astronauts for Crew-based missions (station construction, wet/hardware delivery, EVA, exploration, commercial operations)
• Guilding with players to create your own Space Agency (choose a Director, create a spaceport, design launch vehicles, send probes, fund missions, deal with commercial interest or other Agencies, establishing science/commercial outposts).
• Training/Roles/Certs: Pilot, Engineer, Specialist, Biologist, Geologist, etc.

[SleepyWeasel]

If I get laser beams to shoot down other people's space stations, I'm game.

[MVTek]

I think that would be... not so fun.

[TotalBiscuit]

I doubt it would particularly enjoyable without some kind of combat. MMORPGs are all about combat these days.

TB.

[Hayoo]

Combat was actually what I was trying to get away from for an MMORPG concept, as those are a dime a dozen and always the same kill-a-rabbit-ding-kill-a-bigger-rabbit-ding. This type of game would most likely appeal to builders and socializers rather shooters, and maybe those who like flight sims and vehicle crafting.

Oh well.

[TotalBiscuit]

I don't believe anyone has actually pulled off an MMORPG that has managed that yet.

TBH, I was being a little harsh, it has a lot of possibilities, I just have doubts about the mechanics.

TB.

[Pyrotechnic]

Me also thinks it would not be so fun. Sim Space.

[Sputty]

That's the type of game you DL for free and play for 5 minutes a week at most.

[myrtar]

the problem is that being an astronaut is hard and not fun.

ie years and years of really advanced education, years of field experience, then years of grueling training

[Zsinj]

Hayoo, I think it's a cool idea. I'd play it, and for more than 5min a week too.

[myrtar]

on reading the description again, i wonder how advanced it could get. i suppose i'm thinking with too much realism.

i'm not much of a game designer, i limit myself with reality :(

[Hayoo]

I was thinking back to an old, old CGA game my brother and I used to play, "Project: Space Station". Our main sadistic goal was to build the station as big as possible and get all the astronauts up there and cut off their air.




But today I saw something called SpaceStationSIM and wondered how it would work out as a persistant exploration game with better graphics.





Astronaut training in this game would be merely learning the game mechanics (how to launch, flying a spacecraft, maneuvering during EVA, using the tools, assigning NPCs to stupid tasks, the simple stuff like moving about and using the interface). You wouldn't have to know real engineering or physics, just like we don't have to know real engineering to repair a Magrider or Generator.

But like you guys said, it's not as fun as combat is, not the same kind of intense experience. It would certainly be a different beast than we're all used to: part build sim, part flight sim, part strategy, part first-person exploring game.

[myrtar]

hmm... tbh, i'd like it a lot if it made the advanced stuff available, if not required. maybe an available engineer track for people who want to use or gain more advanced knowledge. that's what would draw me, if i could work with a team to design a spacecraft. maybe start with sattelite payloads and advance to propulsion and launch stuff

[Pyrotechnic]

I thought I'd bought that game, turned out to be just a space station simulator, not quite as good :/

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by martyr

hmm... tbh, i'd like it a lot if it made the advanced stuff available, if not required. maybe an available engineer track for people who want to use or gain more advanced knowledge. that's what would draw me, if i could work with a team to design a spacecraft. maybe start with sattelite payloads and advance to propulsion and launch stuff

That's basically what I was thinking too. Players starting out would learn the game basics, trying out things in the training tank, taking on simple missions or projects, advancing as you go, gaining fame and public support till you become a badass astronaut/engineer/agency director and can call the shots on how a space program should go.

I would figure some Agencies (guilds) would concentrate on just providing the best launch vehicles for other players who'd rather focus on designing space station components but didn't save enough funding or support to get them into orbit.

I dunno. There's quite a lot that could be done for solo, group, and guild play. The trick is making it engaging and have depth.

Originally Posted by Pyrotechnic

I thought I'd bought that game, turned out to be just a space station simulator, not quite as good :/

Which game? Project Space Station?

[Pyrotechnic]

No, it was called Space Station Simulator funnily enough :D

[land_leech]

Sorry Hayoo, but I don't think anyone would be too keen on that game.

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by land_leech

Sorry Hayoo, but I don't think anyone would be too keen on that game.

Except for me and Zsinj I guess. :P

Oh well, can't win them all.

[Zsinj]

Quite true. :D

[Triggar]

I'd totally play it, but I bet it would depress me as I have a sliver in hell's chance of ever actually getting to be an astronaut

[Hayoo]

If you have 11 billion yen you can sign up for quick tour around the moon. :)

Oh, and here's the link to SpaceStationSim for anyone who's interested.

[Ooooooops]

I want Lazorz, Lazorz=Coolness
Coolness=Play
Play= G.P.A. goes and shoots itself in corner.

Everyone wins!

[tigersmith]

STAR TREK ONLINE..PWNS Cant wait for beta..I guess it has the FPS elemet when battling inside of ships. I cant wait

[Hayoo]

Well, there wouldn't be any type combat in this type of game. It's kind of a given that this wouldn't be too popular in the PvP community.

[Aut]

I would play it

[Zsinj]

Yay! That makes, what, five? ;)

[Biohazzard56]

Originally Posted by Hayoo

Combat was actually what I was trying to get away from for an MMORPG concept, as those are a dime a dozen and always the same kill-a-rabbit-ding-kill-a-bigger-rabbit-ding. This type of game would most likely appeal to builders and socializers rather shooters, and maybe those who like flight sims and vehicle crafting.

Oh well.

The problem is builders and socializers dont make up alot of the market.

[Zsinj]

Originally Posted by tigersmith

STAR TREK ONLINE..PWNS Cant wait for beta..I guess it has the FPS elemet when battling inside of ships. I cant wait

For those who hate research, I did a bit of Googling for you.
Official Website: http://www.startrek.perpetual.com/

[minignu]

Originally Posted by Hayoo

Well, there wouldn't be any type combat in this type of game. It's kind of a given that this wouldn't be too popular in the PvP community.

Yeah probably the wrong forum for this ^^

I'd probably play it if i had money.

[Starbum]

Originally Posted by Zsinj

For those who hate research, I did a bit of Googling for you.
Official Website: http://www.startrek.perpetual.com/

Im in.

[Hayoo]

Well, even if this ain't your thing, maybe you can still help me pick out a logo... :)

[Starbum]

1, 3, and 10 get my votes.

[Aut]

1, 9, 11 I think, they remind me of earth and beyond.

[Hayoo]

Yeah, 1 was inspired by earth and beyond, 2 and 9 were inspired by an Apollo 13 poster. 10 borrows from Star Trek: New Worlds. 3 and 4 were inspired by Fantasia 2000 and Space.com.

[SleepyWeasel]

4 and 8 get my vote.

[Triggar]

I dig 1, 4, 8 and 10.

Also, if you're serious about this idea, contact some people in the ERAU engineering department. I'm surrrrre they can provide you with some willing beta-testers ;)

[Hayoo]

Well, I'm serious about making the design fun and interesting. If I inherit $35 million, then I'd probably make it...or maybe I'd give it to SOE so they can fund more PS development? ;)

[Infernus]

Originally Posted by Starbum

Im in.

Definitely.


I like the whole idea Hayoo! Keep with it.

Logos 1 and 10 get my vote, 8 is a close runner-up.

[Hayoo]

I kinda like 4, 8, 9, 10. I like the Black 5, but not the white one. I suppose I can fiddle with colors, but I'll wait until there's more votes if any.

So far:

1 - (4)
3 - (1)
4 - (3)
8 - (4)
9 - (2)
10 - (4)
11 - (1)

I wonder if I should add a little rocket inside the A in Space or at the end of one of the orbit swooshes...

[mag]

Eh, the rocket might make it seem busy.

However, I really like 1. Probably a sub-concious relation to EnB.

And for the record, I'd certainly find a game like that entertaining. Nice change of pace.

[DrizzCat]

I like 11

[Pyrotechnic]

I like number 9. I know what you need, you need someone about to go to Uni to do a games computing degree and that has to do a practical coursework project...

[Aut]

Darn this thread got me hooked on Orbiter
http://www.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/~martins/orbit/orbit.html
Now if the MMORPG made it so you needed skill to get it into orbit or you just wasted a lot of money . . . that would be interesting.

[Hayoo]

@ mag. Yeah, I agree, a rocket ruined the effect. It if anything I'd only use it now if I were animating the logo.

I think a game like this would be best bundled with your typical combat-oriented MMORPG, kinda like what SOE does with their Station Access. Perhaps Mythic or Turbine are likely candidates for diversifying their lineups. ....I wouldn't want SOE touching this as their customers are spread out over enough games.

@ Pyro. Aside from a ton of spacecraft, station modules, and various equipment modules, the game would also need space center facilities designs. The current plan calls for scalable structures for mission control buildings, launch pads, processing facilities, lounges, etc. The idea being that as you advance your Agency guild, you upgrade facilities from just being able to launch a small rocket to a large complex able to support many astronauts and launch a variety of missions and payloads.

The choosable rocket and spacecraft shells have to be numerous to provide a variety of options when considering what can be manufactured, purchased, and launched based on requirements like tonnage, safety, funding, and desired orbit/target. No two rockets should be the same.

Taken all together, that's a lot of art assets, but the payoff is substantial in player uniqueness and ingenuity. Martyr even had the idea of providing access or plugins for AutoCAD programs to let you design real hardware along actual engineering and physics principles. Of course the pre-made shells would be available as well for those of us who aren't rocket scientists. :)

@ Aut. I downloaded Orbiter but I have yet to try it. They say the learning curve on that thing is pretty steep. I think some flying skill should be necessary to get to and from orbit. Maybe not Falcon 4.0 realism, but enough to keep you on your toes and provide some suspense during those dangerous phases of a flight. For spaceflight I think, depending on your "Training", some things should be a little automated, but still open enough where you can use real-world physics to navigate orbits in a more speedy and fuel-efficient manner. But actual knowledge won't be required, but it does give an edge.

I still have to aim for casual gamers too though, so a lot of missions will last only an hour or two, and automation will handle a lot of the physics in those cases, except for the most 'fun' parts.


By the way, I updated #1 with two versions of colors so you know those can be changed or improved for any of the entries.

[minignu]

Go for 6! SIIIIIIIIIX!

[Aut]

yes, the learning curve on Orbiter is steep . . . then it turns into addiction trying to dock with that blasted ISS.

[Hayoo]

I saw the video for that. :) It actually plays out like a mini-game. I may fire that up tonight to just get a feel for how they manage the flying and figure out if I need to dumb it down or follow the same style.

[Triggar]

Oooh, Hayoo, you could have one of the missions be to build a lunar base!

You'd have to figure out the design of the base, then you'd have to figure out what you're going to built it out of, how much all your materials are going to cost and how much they'll weigh (in Earth pounds). Then you'd have to design construction equipment that can work on the moon (including an engine that can run with no air).Then you'd have to design a rocket powerful enough to deliver all that payload to the surface of the moon, since we canned the blueprints for the Saturn V and Russia ditched the plans for the Energia. Then you'd whore yourself out to raise the money to get your stuff launched and delivered and assembled on the surface of the moon.

See, that's why we don't have a lunar base right now :)

[Infernus]

Originally Posted by Aut

Darn this thread got me hooked on Orbiter
http://www.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/~martins/orbit/orbit.html
Now if the MMORPG made it so you needed skill to get it into orbit or you just wasted a lot of money . . . that would be interesting.

Upon review, this game sucks.

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by Triggar

Oooh, Hayoo, you could have one of the missions be to build a lunar base!

You'd have to figure out the design of the base, then you'd have to figure out what you're going to built it out of, how much all your materials are going to cost and how much they'll weigh (in Earth pounds). Then you'd have to design construction equipment that can work on the moon (including an engine that can run with no air).Then you'd have to design a rocket powerful enough to deliver all that payload to the surface of the moon, since we canned the blueprints for the Saturn V and Russia ditched the plans for the Energia. Then you'd whore yourself out to raise the money to get your stuff launched and delivered and assembled on the surface of the moon.

See, that's why we don't have a lunar base right now :)

lol. I'd probably have a pool of flight-ready equipment/craft that players can choose from and customize to the mission. You could design your own stuff too though and add it to the general pool, but that'd be for advanced players.

Since none of the Agency guilds don't use lots of government tax-money (guilds are like Bigelow Aerospace, t/Space, and SpaceX), I'm thinking that several guilds would band together in an international partnership to create such a base on the moon. Same for Mars (which may or may not have to be an expansion, considering all the stuff that would have to go in the initial release version). Tonnage would certainly be a major factor in everything, deciding how much you can take and how far.

@ Infernus. Is Orbiter too complex for fun? If so I'll have to make sure flying is not much harder than flying a Lodestar.

[Frough]

Can anyone say "Outpost Online"?

Cross between Outpost, Underlight, MISSION:MARS, Free Enterprise, and Earth and Beyond. Minus combat :).

[Hayoo]

Uh...Earth and Beyond perhaps, maybe as far as both games have parts that take place in space, but that's about it. Outpost Online, though is a pure a combat sim (unless you mean Outpost 2). And Underlight is a shared-dream-world with combat. I'm not sure how those two games are similar to Spaceflight. I guess parts of it are like Free Enterprise, in that you're trying to set up something that's profitable to keep the space program running, but that's where the similarity ends since your Agency is mostly made up of real people. I haven't heard of Mission: Mars. Is that Mars base sim?

But yeah, Spaceflight would be a cross between a lot of different types of games, a bit of this, a bit of that.

[Infernus]

Originally Posted by Frough

Can anyone say "Outpost Online"?

Cross between Outpost, Underlight, MISSION:MARS, Free Enterprise, and Earth and Beyond. Minus combat :).

I don't see it...


Wait? Spaceflight has V'rix and ancient gates?! I am so in!

[Hayoo]

lol. The V'rix!. Y45 M5ST F21R TH2 VR3X! The whole message fragments thing was interesting, if a bit too easy. The speaking NPC characters were cool (I think they were the first in a MMORPG). I loved docking at stations and running around, and I loved the music (I still have the mp3s). The station areas were so small the universe felt packed and alive. And who could forget the in-game ads? Big! Strong! Wow! Tada-O! LOL.

But after I reached level 50 I realized that aside from assaulting pirate bases, it was still wack-a-rat, but in space. :( I found Planetside shortly after that.

[Frough]

Originally Posted by Hayoo

And Underlight is a shared-dream-world with combat.

Wow, unless you quickly looked up underlight, I'm surprised you heard of it. My NDA is up now so I can tell you I used to be a tester/programmer for the game. You can see my name "Stephen Hey" in the credits after you d/l the game.

Originally Posted by Hayoo

I haven't heard of Mission: Mars. Is that Mars base sim?

It's one of those crazy DOS games with midi-type sound on crappy 8bit (or maybe less I dunno) video pictures with a guy in a control center, mouth half open, etc.

[Triggar]

Originally Posted by Frough

It's one of those crazy DOS games with midi-type sound on crappy 8bit (or maybe less I dunno) video pictures with a guy in a control center, mouth half open, etc.

Because that sounds exactly like what Hayoo is proposing for the new game.

[Infernus]

Originally Posted by Hayoo

lol. The V'rix!. Y45 M5ST F21R TH2 VR3X! The whole message fragments thing was interesting, if a bit too easy. The speaking NPC characters were cool (I think they were the first in a MMORPG). I loved docking at stations and running around, and I loved the music (I still have the mp3s). The station areas were so small the universe felt packed and alive.

But after I reached level 50 I realized that aside from assaulting pirate bases, it was still wack-a-rat, but in space. :( I found Planetside shortly after that.

The story was heating up, the Devs basically decided "fuck marketing, they'll get their massive war when we're ready" and marketing decided that was a "Bad Thing" and closed it all. :(

Sad thing too... I wanted to see Khan kick all ass.

[Hayoo]

Same here. I got excited with all the Net-7 broadcasts that Khan was fed up and building a massive fleet....and then EA shut it down because of the "move" to the west. If E&B hadn't stalled I'd probably still be playing. I wanted the title of captain.

You know, that would have been cool for Planetside: empire-specific news broadcasts like you'd hear at the stations. Now that was pure class and immersion. I want the same for Spaceflight somehow.

[Infernus]

I was Admiral Slavik and a Proconsul on orion. My Explorer never made it to Grandmaster. :(

[Hayoo]

Heh. Small world. I was Commander Hayoo (go figure), a Terran Enforcer on Orion.

[Infernus]

Enforcers had the best looking ships really.

[Hayoo]

That's why I picked 'em. :) Plus they could carry a nice bit of cargo and I liked Blue.

[myrtar]

i like 4 and 6

[Hayoo]

Alright, so far:

Entry - (votes)

1 - (5)
3 - (1)
4 - (4)
6 - (2)
8 - (4)
9 - (3)
10 - (4)
11 - (2)