Empire Specific Artillary

[Earlydawn]

I'd suggest the Terrans get some kind of MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System, essentially a really big rack of long-range rockets that arc over long distances). Basically just a big launch rack on back of a cab to drive it around.

If you wanted to create a feel of atmosphere, make the front the same cab as the AMS, giving the impression that the front cab of the AMS is a common tow for several types of equipment. Can be set for ripple or single-fire sequences. Reloads quick, but ammo consumption is a large issue.

Blasts create secondary projectiles to damage infantry.

The New Conglomerate could get a "paris gun"-style artillary cannon. Nothing fancy here, just a bigass arty peice that delivers one shell at a time, with a massive blast and huge effects. Great if used against large masses of vehicles. Long recycle time on firing.

Secondary effect of EMP effect eminating from the flashpoint because of electromagnetic acceleration method, temporarily doing all those things that EMP does.

The Vanu could have something that looks like a Vanu-Stylized dish. When you fire, a large, lancer like bolt cuts through the sky, offscreen, where it is bounced off a satelite and impacts the target with great (considering it's artillary) accuracy. Has the advantage of being unaffected by high terrain like the flail or the other two.

Secondary effect of a radiator-like field at the impact point.


The caviat would be REQUIRING a laze on the target for the artillary to align. Make the laze pointer waypoints persist a great deal longer, and then primary fire mode would automatically cycle your peice through any laze markers currently in existance. Once the weapon automatically aligned with the marker at the proper angle and directional heading, you would use secondary fire to launch (Or Tertiary fire mode if you want to ripple fire with the TR).

This would keep the Flail unique because while it's an artillary peice, you're still firing and aiming it. This setup would give more interesting types of artillary, but you would be in more of an "artillary commander" role then an actual gunner. You would have to have a competent spotter to head out into the field to affect a target for you.

To keep the flail unique, you could also have flail projectiles home in on laze markers if they're fired within a certain angle of the marker's light column. So the flail can be a one man show, but would still be better with a spotter regardless.

[evregade]

Great Idea!

I love the weapons on all of them, just one thing. Share exp between spotter and gunner (50% to each) cause one took the time to get the vech/cert. While the other is doing the targeting work.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by evregade@Sep 30 2004, 01:00 AM
Great Idea!

I love the weapons on all of them, just one thing. Share exp between spotter and gunner (50% to each) cause one took the time to get the vech/cert. While the other is doing the targeting work.

Good thinking. I'll propose this to Hayoo for posting on the Wishful Patch Notes section. We'd need some way to identify artillary crew versus regular squad members, though.

[Hayoo]

Nice descriptions, Early. :) I especially like the mental image I get for the VS one.

These kinds of ideas would actually go in the vehicle section of Idea Terminal, rather than the Patch Notes area. Wishful Patch Notes should be more on visual or gameply improvements. As the site developed, things like new vehicles, cert ideas and stuff seemed more out of place there, so I began moving them to their own sections as it was easier to link them together. My backpack descriptions will have to be moved to New Weapons and Equipment because of this trend.

The same would need to be done with your empire-specific artillery ideas, so long as they fit in with all the other things suggested on the Idealab Terminal. Since all my concepts are so interconnected, that would have to be a requirement for anything to get into that section, since that's my little playground. :P But you already know the drill. :) Such restrictions don't exist in the Emporium here which belongs to everyone and I have no dominion over.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Hayoo@Sep 30 2004, 01:48 AM
Nice descriptions, Early. :) I especially like the mental image I get for the VS one.

These kinds of ideas would actually go in the vehicle section of Idea Terminal, rather than the Patch Notes area. Wishful Patch Notes should be more on visual or gameply improvements. As the site developed, things like new vehicles, cert ideas and stuff seemed more out of place there, so I began moving them to their own sections as it was easier to link them together. My backpack descriptions will have to be moved to New Weapons and Equipment because of this trend.

The same would need to be done with your empire-specific artillery ideas, so long as they fit in with all the other things suggested on the Idealab Terminal. Since all my concepts are so interconnected, that would have to be a requirement for anything to get into that section, since that's my little playground. :P But you already know the drill. :) Such restrictions don't exist in the Emporium here which belongs to everyone and I have no dominion over.

I was refering to the idea of 50/50 gunner/spotter BEPs, which would be a general patch notes change, I'd imagine. My artillary idea will be staying right here, unless you think it fits and want to harvest it, in which case you are most welcome. I don't even care about credit, just get the idea out there.

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by CDL-Earlydawn@Sep 30 2004, 02:08 AM
I was refering to the idea of 50/50 gunner/spotter BEPs, which would be a general patch notes change, I'd imagine. My artillary idea will be staying right here, unless you think it fits and want to harvest it, in which case you are most welcome. I don't even care about credit, just get the idea out there.

Gotcha. :) And you're correct, of course; that would be a gameplay improvement that could go there. I didn't read the thread correctly.

How would you link the laze pointer to the gunner though? What if two people laze the same target? Do they both get the XP if the gunner destroys the target? Just wondering. :P

I also don't see why your ES artillery couldn't be included with my perspective on the game, as I've only thought of common pool artillery so far. Plus I like the images playing in my mind when I read your descriptions. The TR MLRS is a bit similar to the Reaver-type rocket artillery vehicle I was imagining, but that's no big deal since with Empire Specific stuff we can add better twists.

[Earlydawn]

I think that the experience would be radius-based.

If something gets blasted within said radius of the "laze beacon" by a squadded arty-basec weapon, the owner of that beacon (beacon being the term to describe the base of the WP) and the beacon placer get a 50/50 kill split.

*CDL-Earlydawnsubmits his ideas to the Hayoo collective.

[Hayoo]

Well, shoot, that sounds good to me. Consider it added to the Patch Notes. :) That would definately encourage people to help out artillery.

[piolet68654]

that was kinda my idea but heck yours is alot better than mine

[evregade]

*nudges into the conversation*

Or make the laze that you recieve from the artillary specific to that artillery, and only one person can use it at a time, the game tracks that laze, and whoever targeted with it gets 1/2 of the BEP.

[Hayoo]

But if the Empire Specific artillery requires a laze to fire, that would kinda suck if only one person at a time could target for it.

Edit: Or do you guys feel that's an acceptable risk for the rewards involved? I'd just hate to have the gunner sit there all day waiting each guy in turn to get close enough to laze the target.

[Earlydawn]

That's the price you pay you weilding such firepower. Of course, the arty "coordinator" (official terminology from now on :D ) can dismount the vehicle while he waits.

Perhaps go over there, set up some emplacements... run to the Storage emplacement to grab some top-off ammo, ect. He just has to be there in time to primary-fire to align properly with the lazed target, and then fire.

[Hayoo]

very true :)

"Baker One, begining lazing now"

"Roger that." *zips up fly and runs back to artillery vehicle*

[piolet68654]

does everyone agree about the flail being overepowered?

if so there might be the same thing with these
i dont know just something about artillery, the side with the most always wins

[Hayoo]

Originally posted by piolet68654@Sep 30 2004, 02:52 AM
does everyone agree about the flail being overepowered?

if so there might be the same thing with these
i dont know just something about artillery, the side with the most always wins

Well, I'd require a laze point to fire the Flail as well. But first they need to fix the laze point in the game. It's really funky weird stuff.

[piolet68654]

i think the vs artillery or av tank should be a beam laser that lasts for like, 30 seconds

[Redford Blade]

On the artillery, I think that the Laze pointer needs a serious overhaul. Its range and duration are far too short. Artillery itself has limited uses considering the rapid speed of most units.

I think that artillery should be able to home in on regular WPs as well. That way, a CR4 could use the CUD to find where the enemy is massing, zoom in on the minimap, and place pin-point targets.

Artillery is a devastating weapon, capable of turning entire armies to scrap. If we made the targeting changes that have been suggested, the artillery weapons become just that, artillery. The flail will be almost worthless against infantry charging towards it, and will require an escort. The same can be said of the ES units being proposed.

The second part of my post is a bit more controversial. To allow it would leave all friendly units around a captured base vulnerable to attack without real warning. Vehicles and troops would need to stay under cover as much as possible, and the only real way to handle the arty would be airstrikes. Since air is not always available, and the arty would be heavily defended, this could cause problems, or it could add real challenge to the game.

Just food for thought.

[Cass]

Yes i would like some new things like this and change the Flail it is to strong (takes about 4 volies of RR pods to take 1 out) and can instegib anything.

[SnipeGrzywa]

Well, real army artillery can defend itself againt an infantry attack. Part in fact that the barrels can actually go below horizontal, and second they arnt in anything. They can jstu pick up rifles and shoot.

And yes, the flail targetor is kinda confusin, just need to get to knwo it. If you use the laz thing, you should be able to aim at the wp with the brackets in the middle of your triangle and will hit really close to it. if you use wps, then it depends on the elevation at the spot of the wp. It sets the brackets at a certain height for wps, so you have to learn to adjust to it.

And artillery doesnt need a targetor. True, if you want accurate, direct blows to an enemies position, you need a spotter. However, they just use compasses and maps to get withing 10 m of a target, plus they set up pre-determined spots to nail. Classic case is when a postion is over run, your troops pull back, and then nail that postion with artillery.


The thing that annoys me the most is that if you do my ex in game, nail a base that is over run, you get gps cause you hit the turrets/ce/ ppl running out the doors.

[Redford Blade]

*Sighs* Yeah, I know what you mean. But Planetside has to be balanced, and besides, we don't want arty to become that powerful. IRL, Anti-tank weapons carried by infantry can waste most arty units with two to three shots. Flails, and the new vehicles too, I imagine, would not be that vulnerable. However, (can you tell I work hard to see all sides?) I admit that artillery should be capable of providing unorthodox defense at times.

Personal Story:

I was flying a lib with two passengers to a contested base. On my way, I noticed artillery coming towards the base we had lifted from. The arty ceased, and I continued to fly, although I stayed relatively low. I was flying through a mountain pass when my cat jumped into my lap. As I slowed the vehicle to get him off my lap, I came into a valley, and saw a vehicle positioned on my right. I swung the lib around to fire at it, as it was no bigger than a harasser. Unfortunately, the target was a flail, possibly entrenched to fire at the base. As I started to slide left, the turret swiveled right on me and fired. The light...

[evregade]

Actually from the Vanu Artiller description i immagine the Death Star Beam, 4 beams converging into a superbeam that is refracted to the target, now THAT would look awesome.

Just one important thing.

Flail armor needs to be beaten down, by about 75%. 6 reaver salvos unloaded into one doesnt kill it. That is INSANE for an artillery. I seriously think they should have lightningish, or even harraserish armor.

[Redford Blade]

IMO, the flails also need to have their hit-mesh (I don't know what it is actually called, but I'm referring to the structure that can be hit by weapons.) fixed. I'm tired of firing Striker rounds that spin around underneath the deployed flail in a tight circle before they run out of fuel and explode. I want direct hits, darnit!

[Tiletron|Hyncharas]

At the very least, Ancient weapons like the Flail should fire energy with colours depending on their empire, in order to at least distinguish friend from foe, so allies can get out of the way.

[evregade]

If its a flail shot, wouldn't you always get out of the way? :P

You can just look on the radar, if the shot is green, its friendly, if red its enemy.

[Tiletron|Hyncharas]

The trouble with looking at the map is that if it is a base-siege, you may not be able to tell its difference from a Phoenix/Striker/Lancer from being fired, or a tank firing shells.

I've been in "Alamo" like events, and it is not pretty to discern who's firing what.

[Ubu]

I agree that the flail shots should be colored to their empire. More than once have I been in the hills outside of a base, with flail fire comming very close. Of course I wait for the next shot and look on my mini-map, but as Tiletron|Hyncharas said, it can be difficult to decern especially in the heat of battle. (Flails are most often used in the "Alamo" type of situations)

[myrtar]

wow. i came in here expecting more failness, which mostly just annoys older players, but as usual around here, this is a great idea. very well thought-out and balanced.

also i agree with the flail shot colors... or, for that matter, any energy weapon's color.

as vanu, i get killed all the time because i assumed the pulsar/lasher/flux/rail/ppa shots were from my team. if we steal _your_ weapons the tracers turn purple and you know it's us - if you steal ours, there's no visual indication that it's not a friendly. you folks are starting to feel our pain with the flail.

another note on the flail: in cc beta, the flail shot itself was a massive glowing sphere with a long trail.
they took the sphere out and just left the trail - if they changed colors of it, i'd like to see the sphere re-implemented with empire colors. the explosions look goofy without it.

[Tiletron|Hyncharas]

For vanu weapons the colours could stay the same, unless they are held by an enemy empire. That way a standard would still be in place for them, while for anyone else it would be tailored to their empire's colour-scheme.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Hayoo+Sep 30 2004, 02:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hayoo @ Sep 30 2004, 02:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-piolet68654@Sep 30 2004, 02:52 AM
does everyone agree about the flail being overepowered?

if so there might be the same thing with these
i dont know just something about artillery, the side with the most always wins

Well, I'd require a laze point to fire the Flail as well. But first they need to fix the laze point in the game. It's really funky weird stuff. [/b][/quote]
But then the question is, "Why use the flail over ES Artillary?"

And thank you for your kind words.

[evregade]

Well, i suppose there could be a few reasons to still use the flail in that case...

1- It should be the only one that goes over water

2- It would be the fastest moving of all of them

3- Being CC related, i think it should have the greatest range, but less power than the other 3.

That certainly sounds reasonable to me.

[Redford Blade]

I hate being tossed around from comp to comp, I keep having to log in. Anyway, I'd also like to add that the NC and TR units should have a good amount of inherent inaccuracy, since they seem to be the most damaging and widespread.

[damage]

/Sign that one

[piolet68654]

welcome to the idealab kobei
you sure are good at signing things :D

[Breed]

When i think empire specific artillery i see it like this:

[NC]
Slow firing cannon, medium accuracy, heavy payload, medium area of effect.
[VS]
Medium speed cannon, high accuracy, medium payload, medium area of effect.
[TR]
Fast firing cannon, low accuracy, medium payload, large area of effect.

I see the NC as a lumbering beast with 1 large cannon atop it, delivering cataclysmic destruction but at a slow rate.

The VS would also be a hover vehicle, but still slow in comparison to the flail.
I quite like the boucn/sattelite idea, but a simple charge loaded with nasty plasma would work too maybe.

The TR would have a 3 barrel rotary system, each with a significant payload, but with such poor accuracy it wouldnt appear unbalanced versus the others.

I think making Artillery light armoured would be relastic versus its payload.
Othewise it would be abused me thinks.

The last thing we need is everyone going around in arty vehicles, parking on the side of hills and annihilating everything.