Duel Weapons

[Sil3ntKill3r]

I was thinking that we should have duel weapons, you could equip one weapon
(ex. AMP) and another weapon (ex. another pistol).

I really don't know if this would overpower some people, if it does the pistols could probably be a bit weaker when you have duels. Anybody agree with me?

[otras]

we've been trying to get something like that implemented for years now
as you can see, no luck so far............ damnit

[IncomingFire]

I don't know about duel weapons but dual weapons is something people have been wanting for a while but I don't think Planetside is that kind of game. This game has a much higher strategical side to it that most players ignore, what they want is a FPS not a MMOFPS, where they can run around like one men killing machines instead of working as a team for a greater goal than just one objective. A true FPS is where dual pistols belong but not in Planetside.

[C4miner]

Perhaps they could make dual weapons a bonus of controlling certain territories.

[Tiletron|Hyncharas]

'Yeah, we spoke of this before a little bit:

http://s3.invisionfree.com/Planetside_Idea...p?showtopic=183 (http://s3.invisionfree.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=183)

[BlackMesaESU]

I really dont think duel weapons are a good idea. In a real war a soldier would never use duel pistols because the fact that you have an extra gun is outweighed by the fact that you wont be able to aim it. In PS terms it would be bad because infil's would demand another slot to make their jobs easier, yet it would have no effect on the common solder because the pistols dont do all that much damage.

[Pyrotechnic]

I think people have been playing Halo 2 too much. The duel firing wouldn't work either, you'd either have to re-map you keys or just fire both at the same time. And like BlackMesaESU said, in RL you wouldn't be able to aim straight anyway, so even though you could fire twice the shots you'd only hit half the time, so the result would be the same. Also, reloading would take longer, partly due to you having to do it twice and partly because you have a gun in each hand so no spare.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by BlackMesaESU@Feb 12 2005, 09:00 PM
I really dont think duel weapons are a good idea. In a real war a soldier would never use duel pistols because the fact that you have an extra gun is outweighed by the fact that you wont be able to aim it. In PS terms it would be bad because infil's would demand another slot to make their jobs easier, yet it would have no effect on the common solder because the pistols dont do all that much damage.
We have giant battlemechs with ancient technology shield generators constructed by molecular technology. I think some calcium ion rotors in the muscle cells for greater arm strength and thus, greater accuracy, wouldn't be too outlandish at all.

[piolet68654]

/decline
although i would like to have deul boomer detonators
i'd have to pass
1. all that eamwork stuff said earlier
2. 2 magscatters would kill an agile in 2 shots (better then JH :()
3. looks a little ugly

[IncomingFire]

Sorry to be a spelling nazi but how many times can people misspell dual?

[piolet68654]

3 tims fore mee

[BlackMesaESU]

Originally posted by IncomingFire@Feb 13 2005, 03:42 PM
Sorry to be a spelling nazi but how many times can people misspell dual?
I'm quiet ashamed now :unsure:

[Breed]

Im inclined to disagree with allowing dual weilding pistols, it seems right in action films and such games, but i don't think it fits in PS, it's too "gangsta" and would promote more solo players maybe?

And as its already been said, pistols are shite anyway :P

[Earlydawn]

"Gangsta" Rofl.

Akimbo pistols would encourage people to actually carry them, and give cloakers an edge when they get the second pistol slot.

[Breed]

Originally posted by Earlydawn@Feb 13 2005, 08:50 PM
"Gangsta" Rofl.

Akimbo pistols would encourage people to actually carry them, and give cloakers an edge when they get the second pistol slot.
Dual pistols is an incentive to use pistols but what would grant access to akimbo pistols?
And if it was attainable by everyone then people would stop using the solo-pistol.

I dont want to see infils with dual pistols either, less "professional assassin" and more "arny in slow mo jumping around a corner guns a blazin'"

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Breed+Feb 13 2005, 05:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Breed @ Feb 13 2005, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Earlydawn@Feb 13 2005, 08:50 PM
"Gangsta" Rofl.

Akimbo pistols would encourage people to actually carry them, and give cloakers an edge when they get the second pistol slot.
Dual pistols is an incentive to use pistols but what would grant access to akimbo pistols?
And if it was attainable by everyone then people would stop using the solo-pistol.

I dont want to see infils with dual pistols either, less "professional assassin" and more "arny in slow mo jumping around a corner guns a blazin'" [/b][/quote]
Incorrect. The presense of support equipment would discourage everyone from using dual pistols. Additionally, grenades are avaliable. Dual Pistols would be good for players who don't like / aren't skilled with grenades, and don't use support equipment.

As far as cloakers go.. I don't know if you've noticed, but they don't exactly have a lot going for them. They can't kill as effectively as most regular infantry, and while sabotage is technically possible, dual pistols would make them a little bit better at a given field. Give them something new to do, and I might be inclined to agree.

Acquiring the ability: Tie it to an elite ability / merit commendation... say, 100 overall kills with a pistol, followed by a 20 kill streak.

[IncomingFire]

Originally posted by Earlydawn
...As far as cloakers go.. I don't know if you've noticed, but they don't exactly have a lot going for them. They can't kill as effectively as most regular infantry....
I don't think you remember Cyrus too well there Early. He used to be able to hold a tower more or less on his own as a cloaker against small squads. I was never able to do that in rexo let alone in a spandex suit with a buffed up butter knife. I think there is too much of a push for Planetside to be more like other FPS games when I believe it should be more of a cross between a FPS and a RTS game with slightly (notice that word there) more of an emphasis on RTS. Just my 2 cents though.

[Breed]

Hmmmm ok Earlydawn, but lets look at it from the infils perspective (my own).

Let's say im using an AMP, i want to get as close as possible to the enemy and then unload in his back.
Currently it takes what? a 3 second burst to kill an agile? imagine 2 AMP's, since accuracy isnt an issue at point blank all that lead would be poured into the agile, making it 1.5 seconds.
Or how about 2 NC pistols?

Thats like giving infils jackhammers :blink:

Not to mention the work that would go into allowing dual pistols to work.
More v_mdl's and p_mdel's and not to mention new reload/idle animations.
Not only for the 3 empires but for every armour capable of using dual pistols.

For what it brings to the game, it doesn't seem worth it to me, not when infils are relativly balanced as they are (Im an infil).

if dual weilding was brought into the game i sincrely doubt it anyone would use it past the first week.
Soldiers need heavy firepower and 2 pistols are too short ranged, innacruate and weak to be tactically sound.

Infils would use it, but it would double there killing power, and i don't think anyone apart from infils would apprciate that.

Just my thoughts ;)

[land_leech]

I dont know. <_< Although everyone likes to kick A** with duel pistols, its been done. I mean Halo 2 and Toomb Raider does it too. Maby there could be a seperate pistol for this concept or a cert to keep too many people from using them. And yet it would suit the chicks of PlanetSide well.

[piolet68654]

if they ar'nt for cloakers, why are we even talking about them, i mean we have freaking rocket launchers and lasers!

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Breed@Feb 14 2005, 04:10 AM
Hmmmm ok Earlydawn, but lets look at it from the infils perspective (my own).

Let's say im using an AMP, i want to get as close as possible to the enemy and then unload in his back.
Currently it takes what? a 3 second burst to kill an agile? imagine 2 AMP's, since accuracy isnt an issue at point blank all that lead would be poured into the agile, making it 1.5 seconds.
Or how about 2 NC pistols?

Thats like giving infils jackhammers :blink:

Not to mention the work that would go into allowing dual pistols to work.
More v_mdl's and p_mdel's and not to mention new reload/idle animations.
Not only for the 3 empires but for every armour capable of using dual pistols.

For what it brings to the game, it doesn't seem worth it to me, not when infils are relativly balanced as they are (Im an infil).

if dual weilding was brought into the game i sincrely doubt it anyone would use it past the first week.
Soldiers need heavy firepower and 2 pistols are too short ranged, innacruate and weak to be tactically sound.

Infils would use it, but it would double there killing power, and i don't think anyone apart from infils would apprciate that.

Just my thoughts ;)
Infils are balanced, but not useful.

If Infils become more dangerous, then people will have to be more careful. To be perfectly honest, Infils have been a non-consideration for far too long. They either need more direct or indirect ways to affect their enemies.

As far as the art / memory issue, we always design Idealab concepts with accelerated limitations. If you give content far-reaching needs, the technology can follow.

[IncomingFire]

And in counter to you Early I have to say Infils have to be the most useful class hands down. Now admitadly this is in conjunction with other certs such as max certs, but still the ability to go in hack a CC then go hack a term and hold said CC on your own using any number of available options is indispensable. For example I myself have used the tactic of going in hacking a CC, with a few but not many enemies around, getting down to an equip term, switching into a max or rexo suit and holding the CC for at least long enough for other attacking forces to make a significant gain. On some level the amount of versatility and power a cloaker who knows what s/he is doing can have is ludacris. The balancing factor for infils is all in the amount of dedication and practice that it takes to be able to reach this level. The example I used I was only able to do once, but to use Cyrus as an example again, he was a one man killing machine at times in a tower or holding a back door, usually with nothing more than a cloak suit and a knife or nades.

Sorry if this comes off as a rant but this is something I feel rather strongly about.

[Earlydawn]

Yes, but that's purely propped up based on the weight of the MAX certs given in the example. The point stands: The vast majority of infiltrators are not in the proper mindset to operate effectively as assassins, and there are insufficient communication / intelligence structures for them to operate as scouts.

[Breed]

Originally posted by Earlydawn@Feb 15 2005, 03:25 AM
The point stands: The vast majority of infiltrators are not in the proper mindset to operate effectively as assassins, and there are insufficient communication / intelligence structures for them to operate as scouts.
At the end of the day the infil suit has no dedicated role which the user should do.
It's just another armour with benifits and disadvantages.

Concerning the infil assassin, i think infils have more than enough tools to stalk and kill single enemies, just they cant expect to not use there brains whilst doing so.
You can't just engage an enemy rexo in the middle of a field, you wait until he's either at a terminal looking though menus or reloading his weapon etc

And as for communications, if the infil is part of a dedicated outfit and has an objective to complete, communication is fine in my eyes ;)

If theres anything i'd like to see infils receive, it would be an in-built REK and the ability to carry a explosive that can be attached to terminals/generators.

[IncomingFire]

Comms are f'd up and there is no simple solution to fixing them. The infil is all about using your brain because you can't just run and gun which is how too many treat it as you need to plan out a majority of your moves in advance.

[Earlydawn]

Originally posted by Breed+Feb 15 2005, 07:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Breed @ Feb 15 2005, 07:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Earlydawn@Feb 15 2005, 03:25 AM
The point stands: The vast majority of infiltrators are not in the proper mindset to operate effectively as assassins, and there are insufficient communication / intelligence structures for them to operate as scouts.
At the end of the day the infil suit has no dedicated role which the user should do.
It's just another armour with benifits and disadvantages.

Concerning the infil assassin, i think infils have more than enough tools to stalk and kill single enemies, just they cant expect to not use there brains whilst doing so.
You can't just engage an enemy rexo in the middle of a field, you wait until he's either at a terminal looking though menus or reloading his weapon etc

And as for communications, if the infil is part of a dedicated outfit and has an objective to complete, communication is fine in my eyes ;)

If theres anything i'd like to see infils receive, it would be an in-built REK and the ability to carry a explosive that can be attached to terminals/generators. [/b][/quote]
Yes, communication is great on the outfit level, but your statement simply shows how everything have been devaluated from a global perspective. Infils need better ways of relaying intelligence to the masses, not just their outfit.

I agree with the point that the infiltration suit is just an armor. Thus, we need more non-combat certs for eavesdropping and gathering intel.

[SlickG]

I think Dual Weapons would be very over powering to people especially when you are considering Magscatters (NC 2 for 1 handgun) instead how about (Forget about AMP for moment) Sub Machine Guns like a Uzi as a second choice for cloakers, which shoot rapidly but are easier to other guy (taking into account they've escaped sneaky shots in back) to find cloaker because of larger muzzle flash.